| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 04-22-2011 |
I spent the day at Cheney Stadium Thursday, getting there before anyone else but the maintenance crew and other team employees, as usual, and had a plan to get down to the field during BP and talk to Dustin Ackley, Dan Cortes and the coaching staff. But my plans changed when an AL Central scout and I began discussing Alex Liddi. G. Gordon Liddi as the scout called him.
"I look at these numbers and I'm not sure why he's in the lineup," the scout said. "He's not hitting with runners in scoring position, he's not hitting with the bases empty ... he's not hitting."
It's a small sample size, but those numbers reflect what the scouting eye suggests in the first place. Liddi isn't a big-league ballplayer.
"He can't play there," the scout said of Liddi's chances to play third base. "He doesn't have good hands and he I wrote the word 'stiff' by his name after the first two games here."
Liddi's swing path is long and he lacks the bat speed to make up for it. His other plate skills -- pitch recognition, strike zone judgment, plate coverage -- all grade below average right now. He's not hitting the ball the other way like he did a few years back in High Desert, prompting the scout to suggest that "somebody told him to hit home runs."
That flies with his pull-happy approach.
He does have a good arm and has been better in the past in all aspects, and he's just 21, so it's not time to completely give up on the kid. His statistics this month can ultimately mean zilch, too, so consider the track record when including the numbers from this season along with them. But it's not looking good right now, offensively or defensively.
And moving to first base only puts more pressure on the bat; he probably can't play a corner outfield spot due to the lack of agility either, which means he's a right-handed, poor-man's version of Geoff Blum with heavy feet and several holes in his swing.
In other words, he's not a major-league player and no longer a prospect.
I'll wait until later this year to declare such a conclusion, however, since the weather is cold and wet and it's Liddi's first go-round in the PCL -- and because he's looked better in the past.
alex-liddi
Comments
The following 32 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: Adam B. on 04-22-2011 16:24:28 It's rather unfortunate considering the dearth of upper-level prospects the M's have at the position. And what I can only imagine will be a relatively immediate need at the MLB level for someone to man the hot-corner. The M's had better hope Carlos Triunfel comes around or Anthony Rendon falls into their laps, because free-agency isn't looking particularly promising either. |
| 2. By: rightwingrick on 04-22-2011 16:50:08 I saw Liddi in the Rainier's win the other night, and he hit a perfectly executed hit-and-run which led to the winning rally. The guy is 21. He's in AAA. Give him some time. He didn't play against the greatest competetion as a 16-18 year old, either. My bet is that he's in the major leagues at 23. |
| 3. By: rightwingrick on 04-22-2011 16:51:26 But the guy to watch for a really fast track is Erasmo Ramirez, AA pitcher. |
| 4. By: Jason A. Churchill on 04-22-2011 17:15:12 Liddi will never be a big-league regular. Ever. He's getting WORSE. The hope I suggest to be kept is that he can be useful in some manner, perhaps as a platoon bat or pinch hitter, not as an everyday player. There are lots of 21-year-old players struggling out there. It doesn't mean they all have potential to hit big-league pitching consistently. Liddi isn't one of them. You can ignore my assessment in favor of your own guess if you'd like, but don't tell too many people what you think. for your own good. As for Ramirez ... based on what? The fact that he can throw a lot of strikes with fringy stuff and is without any projection left already at age 21? OK. |
| 5. By: bcsimons on 04-22-2011 17:56:16 Nice write-up. It is always nice to learn these things so that we don't over-estimate what we have. By chance did you get a chance to get any opinion on how Ackley or the others are doing? Thanks. |
| 6. By: rjfrik on 04-22-2011 19:18:42 Well this is pretty much what I already knew. Geez I wish we had more hope on the horizon. I think I have hit the wall in this long journey of trying to become better. Have to power through it, but I haven't seen a lot of positives with this organization lately. I can't wait for the number 2 pick. Wish we had a few more picks in the first and supplemental first. Jealous of the Rays and their 10 picks between our two. |
| 7. By: Jason A. Churchill on 04-22-2011 19:35:45 bcsimons, Ackley isn't in a groove, which explains his low 200s average, but he's looking OK at second -- still below average, I think, though he's handling the routine ball and double plays fairly well. Mangini just got back but still has the good swing. But like Liddi he doesn't have a position, either. Adding Rendon, Cole, Bundy, Starling or someone like that to the org will be nice. I'd bet heavily that it's a college player, which goes well with the Smoak's, Pineda's and Ackley as young ready soon-or-now types. It's a process. |
| 8. By: Blowgun7 on 04-22-2011 19:46:53 People need to just recognize that players like Peguero, Liddi, Mangini, Tui, Carp, Halman are never going to be anything valuable for this organziation.. There is nothing interesting on that AAA roster other than Ackley. Look to Double A if you want to find some players who can actually contribute to a winning club... To me outside of Ackley, Chavez is the closest position player who could hold down a major league job and actually be a decent player on a good M's team.. Then you have some legit utility guys like Tenbrink and Seager (although he can't handle SS). Poythress has some potential and is worth watching, and Triunfel if he can play an acceptable SS is still somewhat interesting... Those are the guys who have the potential to be good contributors to a winning club... The AAA group is crap.. Just depth in case of injury, nothing else. |
| 9. By: Talkbaseball on 04-22-2011 22:42:37 After another rough outing for Cole in which he only stuck out one, are we looking at a very slim chance at Rendon? How is it that Bauer carved up the same lineup one night later with 17 K's. Can you give a scouting report on Bauer? If Cole is so dominant how come is peripherals are so ordinary? Am I the only one who wants Starling if Rendon goes 1-1? |
| 10. By: rjfrik on 04-22-2011 23:26:16 It's Cole or rendon and I will be happy with either one. The king, the prince and Cole would be an amazing trio of starting pitchers. Having a solid third basemen for the future would be equally amazing. |
| 11. By: dawgncarolina on 04-23-2011 00:19:38 Franklin walked two more times today, giving him ten in fourteen games. He drew 51 free passes all last year. I would love to see him develop a legitimate eye. Jason, do you think this is indicative of a more patient approach, greater respect from pitchers, the Cal League effect, or just some small sample size fluke? |
| 12. By: sexymarinersfan on 04-23-2011 02:16:54 I can't believe that Rendon already has 59 BB's this season!!! That's just insane. What a perfect 3 hole hitter he would be. If he's gone then Cole would allow us to potentially have one of the most solid up and coming rotations in all of baseball. Surely the M's might shop one of the young guns, Pineda or Cole for a major league ready bat. Even if they didn't a rotation of King, Prince, Cole, Vargas, and Fister is pretty amazing! |
| 13. By: jumpshot03 on 04-23-2011 03:14:01 Pitching is great in all. But in this draft we need some bats. We can put out a whole staff of dominant pitchers but we would lose 1-0, 3-1 or something because we cant hit. Please draft a bat. Reach for all I care. As we can see good pitching will get a Cy Young but no one will even show up to watch a 2-1 win by Felix becuase the batters all strike out or weakly ground out to first. Get Rendon or the next best bat in the draft. Felix, Pineda, and Cole could all pitch in a series and we would lose. This isnt San Fran where they can get away with a poor offense. We dont have a nice warm weather environment that aids the hitters. So we need solid bats that can hit in any weather or park. This offense is getting old. |
| 14. By: Boy9988 on 04-23-2011 11:39:32 "This isnt San Fran where they can get away with a poor offense. We dont have a nice warm weather environment that aids the hitters." Actually, San Fran has the coldest average temperature of any park in baseball. |
| 15. By: maqman on 04-23-2011 11:53:53 You have to expect most prospects not to pan out, Liddi's just another one that couldn't make the grade. There's still some talent down on the farm and somebody we're not paying too much attention to will figure the game out and surprise us. How much attention was Pineda getting the season before last? Not much. I'll take either Cole or Rendon, happily, or whoever Z and the scouts prefer. Despite the slow start this year the team has improved this year and it will be better next year. |
| 16. By: SoCalMsFan on 04-23-2011 14:48:18 Whatever happened to Dennis Raben? Is he destined to be a AAA lifer? Seems like he might be able to swing it.. |
| 17. By: Marco on 04-23-2011 17:06:16 I appreciated very much your cautious final words, Jason. I'm afraid too you're right about Liddi future projection but it's still wise to allow the boy some more time. In the meanwhile I find interesting to see who the M's are going to draft with that no. 2 pick - if it's Rendon obviously that will mean they do not trust in Liddi anymore. On the contrary if both Pittsburgh and Seattle pass on Rendon what should we guess ? |
| 18. By: johnfree on 04-23-2011 17:11:17 Marco, Drafting Rendon doesn't mean the M's don't trust Liddi (Liddi's play is doing it all by itself). It means Rendon was the best player on their board. Nothing more or less. |
| 19. By: VanillaGorilla on 04-23-2011 17:11:22 The Mariners feelings about Liddi will have nothing to do with that they do at #2. but i dont think they see Liddi as the future at 3rd base regardless |
| 20. By: johnfree on 04-23-2011 17:52:48 I really don't post on here to often but Marco's post just has my head spinning. I don't want to get banned so, I'll just sum it up this way. If someone in Jack Z's Front Office or Jack Z himself every said "I don't know,we already have Liddi....you think we should draft Rendon". I would throw in my M's fan card. |
| 21. By: Jerry on 04-23-2011 17:59:11 Yeah, I don't see any link between Liddi and the #2 pick. If Rendon is available, I have to think the M's will pick him. However, that does bring up an interesting issue. The M's don't really have any legit options in the organization for 3B that will be ready in the near future. I don't think that Liddi, Tui, Mangini, or Tenebrink are realistic options for starting 3B. Those guys have value as potential bench players, but I don't they they will be key parts of a contending club in the future. Some have said that Triunfel might be best there, but he still have a lot of question marks. Seems like the best news about him lately is increasing confidence that he could perhaps stick at SS. It seems more and more clear that Chone Figgins isn't the best fit with the club. Having a guy who can drive in hit in the middle of the order at 3B would be a huge help for the club. I had kinda hoped they would try to pick up Brandon Wood and see if he could sort out his issues with another organization. I don't think the M's should make draft decisions based on need, but Rendon would be the perfect addition to the organization. We just don't have many other legit options in the organization now. |
| 22. By: Marco on 04-23-2011 18:21:32 Sorry, perhaps I should have written Liddi, Tui, Mangini, Tenbrink, Triunfel & every other 3B option in the minors. What I still do not understand is why a major league organization should not make draft decisions based on need. If you believe Figgins is not the answer and not owing great options in the minor system at 3b and suddenly you're facing a chance to land a major college super prospect like Rendon - that's to say somebody who could be major league ready within one year - why your decision should not be based on that real and present need ? |
| 23. By: Marco on 04-23-2011 18:31:09 To be even more exhaustive I'd like to make a simple example. Your team has already three good shortstops in the system while you're desperately short as for catchers. Then are you going to invest the largest part of your available money in another shortstop just because he landed in your first draft spot ? OK, I realize you might trade some shortstops but you're still desperately short as for catchers. I'm just trying to figure how it works in their mind folks. |
| 24. By: Marco on 04-23-2011 18:41:35 ... and please forgive me johnfree, I do hope your head is fine now. |
| 25. By: dawgncarolina on 04-23-2011 19:00:33 You don't draft based on need because of Jeff Clement. What you describe is exactly what we did in that draft (passing on Tulo, Braun, etc) to take a catcher because we were in desperate need of one. And IIRC the next offseason Johjima comes available, Moore emerges as a prospect, Johnson starts to impress and all of a sudden we were flush with catching prospects (not that any of them worked out). The point is, things are way too fluid in baseball. What is a position of need can become a position of strength quickly and vice versa. Draftees aren't going to help immediately, therefore you take the best player and let the chips fall where they may. If you end up with too much talent at one position you can either move people around or trade them. But if you draft someone because he fits a "need" and then he doesn't work out, you cost your team dearly. That Clement draft was absolutely disastrous to this team. |
| 26. By: Blowgun7 on 04-23-2011 21:20:27 Jason, any word if Morban came out of tonight's game due to injury? That would really suck given that he' gotten off to an impressive start. Really want to see what he can do over a full season if he can stay healthy. Also, should we be encouraged with Triufel's start? I know you commented in ST that he had made some adjustments and still have excellent bat speed. Looks like he's hitting for some more power early this season |
| 27. By: dawgncarolina on 04-23-2011 22:41:49 Tri's ISO was .075 last year. It's .200 this year. He's repeating the level so it SHOULD be better, but that's a pretty massive jump. If he could ISO anything close to that with his contact skills and the possibility he could hang at shortstop he'd get interesting again in a hurry. Obviously, it's very early, but scouts have always thought he'd have some pop. It's nice for it to finally show up, even if it's only been a couple of weeks. |
| 28. By: Adam T on 04-23-2011 23:00:12 I'm also curious about Triunfel. Wondering if these improved numbers are actually a product of an improved approach, a product of getting older/wiser/healthier, or is he still the same? |
| 29. By: StandinPat on 04-25-2011 13:21:31 "I should have written Liddi, Tui, Mangini, Tenbrink, Triunfel & every other 3B option in the minors. What I still do not understand is why a major league organization should not make draft decisions based on need." "Your team has already three good shortstops in the system while you're desperately short as for catchers. Then are you going to invest the largest part of your available money in another shortstop just because he landed in your first draft spot ?" The names you used in the first quote pretty much answers the question in the second. All of our now defunct 3B prospects in the minors where previously viewed in a different light, albeit in varying degrees. In essence that is your example of being flush with SS, 2-3 years ago, one might have argued that the M's had plenty of 3B prospects and therefore wouldn't "need" to add another via the draft. The problem is prospects are extremely volatile and here we are now in "need" of a 3B. Basically if all those SS prospects don't pan out, and that happens, then you wind up with no viable SS of the future and a decent, but not great C because you reached do to a perceived need. |
| 30. By: Marco on 04-28-2011 12:51:45 @ 29. I realize your point. But just to remain with that hypothetic organization then they will still miss any chance to develop a good catcher. I mean, OK to pursuit talented players the way they land in front of you but first of all I would try to invest a large part of my draft budget to fill a sure hole like (still as an example) that catching position. I can't believe there's no design in building up a team, it can't be just a matter of luck or less. |
| 31. By: dawgncarolina on 04-28-2011 16:39:43 There certainly is design in building a team. And one aspect of that team is to get the best talent you can out of the draft. That talent is cheap and cost controlled, and if you draft wisely will pay off many times better than free agent market value. You then fill holes ("needs", if you will") via trade, free agency, developmental luck, etc. But luck, as always, favors the prepared. Design in franchise building is a huge factor. |
| 32. By: StandinPat on 04-28-2011 21:48:10 Marco, there's an awfully simple solution for that. If you are drafting the best player available, a SS in your scenario, and down the road you wind up with three quality SS and no C, you simply make a trade or sign a FA. I'd rather have an All-star SS and a need at C, then a mediocre SS and C combo. |
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