| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 08-19-2011 |
The Final in-season top 30 is ready -- this one wasn't easy, as it's impossible to assess value to a player moving from shortstop to catcher when he's yet to play the position in games and when a good portion of those eligible have yet to play pro ball.
That's what I am here for, however, and I think this turned out well.
The August Top 30 is FREE for all and can be viewed by clicking here.
I'll be chatting it up at 7PM PT Friday night, it's FREE for all. Yes, I'm in a giving mood. Click here for the chat.
I also wanted to add following notes:
The top three
The top three are literally interchangeable. Danny Hultzen, James Paxton and Taijuan Walker are each worthy of the top spot, but there are reasons why I went the direction I did. Much of those reasons include risk, probability, yet without ignoring upside as part of the equation.
The second toughest job
After trying to find a spot for Marcus Littlewood the toughest task this time around was pitting high school and college kids versus pros. The draftees have little pro experience if any at all, but simply trusted the scouts I talk to most as well as my own beliefs in terms of what is more valuable and how much risk is too much despite upside, and things of that nature.
To clear that up, these rankings, in a vacuum, suggest that I would not trade the No. 8 prospect for the No. 9 prospect, or any player ranked below them, at least at this time, just to give an example. I wouldn't trade Nick Franklin for Victor Sanchez and I wouldn't trade Forrest Snow for James Jones.
Fallen
Several names fell off the list entirely and some simply fell in the rankings. Some of this is due to the draft picks being eligible for Prospect Insider's Top 30 now that they have signed and some because for the final in-season Top 30 I reverted back to the off-season parameters of rookie status, so I include some on the 25-man roster.
One exception was made here: Trayvon Robinson is still technically a rookie, but I do not believe there is any chance he ends the season with fewer than 130 plate appearances, which means he'll start 2012 as a second-year player and will not be eligible.
Josh Lueke and Chance Ruffin are not very likely to reach 50 innings pitched, hence their inclusion.
Those that fell off the list for various reasons include left-hander Mauricio Robles (injury, arm strength, command), right-hander Dan Cortes (probably ranks in the 31-35 range, but could climb with more strikes), right-hander Ambioris Hidalgo (31-35 range), lefty James Gilheeney (31-40 range), Brandon Maurer (lack of performance, was shut down, 31-40 range), right-hander Tyler Burgoon (slowed development, 31-35 range), 1B Matt Mangini (injuries, lack of power shown), right-hander Josh Fields (traded), and right-hander Jose Valdivia (arm srength questions stemming from TJ surgery remain for long-term).
If you have question about why one player wasn't ranked, or was ranked above or below another player, ask me in the chat.
august-top-30
Comments
The following 77 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: rjfrik on 08-19-2011 17:00:32 Thanks Jason, List looks strong. Maybe I'm a little biased but I really like that list in terms of farm system depth. I see a lot of MLBers on there. Where would you rank this list against the other MLB teams lists? Top 15 |
| 2. By: docsmith on 08-19-2011 17:24:30 Wow...that was nice to look at. It is impressive how much it has improved in the last month. With Seager, Ackley, Halman and Pineda graduating and Furbush, Wells, and Robinson essentially graduating (from others systems), we have that list of 30 plus 7 graduates (and Carp, but I don't think he was still a "prospect"). Hmmmm, who might graduate next year, I can see Paxton and Hultzen making it at some point with Catricala, Franklin or Martinez maybe getting a call up, as needed. A lot of our talent is still a ways off, but you can actually look at that list and see the train of prospects coming. Any thoughts on who might see big league time next year? |
| 3. By: dawgncarolina on 08-19-2011 17:29:02 "Any thoughts on who might see big league time next year?" Aside from Hultzen/Paxton, who are both almost shoo ins to see Seattle next year, Pryor would be my best guess. One or two of Ramirez/Snow/Anthony Vazquez could reach the bigs as well. If something happens to Ryan Triunfel could get a look. |
| 4. By: Marco on 08-19-2011 17:35:36 Jason, I always wondered what's your real aim when you make a prospects rankings like that. I mean, is it based upon who's going to reach sooner the majors in your opinion or who's going to contribute more at that level or it's just a mere projection according to physical skills on paper ? Seriously I'd like to realize your guide lines otherwise I can't understand several of your rankings - and please forget Liddi in this case. |
| 5. By: nater on 08-19-2011 18:15:31 Marco, for me his explanation of "would not trade player at 8 for player at 9" about sums it up, since given the multiple levels and ages and array of skills and positions we're not comparing players of the same fruit, if you know what I mean. Thanks for the list, Jason. Nice to see four catchers in the top 30 now. That's probably the single most encouraging development from this year's transactions for me. |
| 6. By: baseballman on 08-19-2011 18:54:13 Wow, that is quite the list. Great work JAC. Quite a bit of surprises with player movement from even just a month ago. I agree with nater, it's really nice to see how many catchers and high impact SP we have in the top 30. In just a couple short years, Jack Z and his guys have really built up our farm system. And I like seeing a good amount of guys from each level. |
| 7. By: dawgncarolina on 08-19-2011 19:00:19 "And I like seeing a good amount of guys from each level." This is a very underrated aspect of evaluating a system, in my opinion. The M's have a nice spread of developing talent across all levels of the organization. This bodes very well for the future. |
| 8. By: Adam T on 08-19-2011 19:25:01 A little game for you, Jason: This is the best the Mariner farm system has looked since ____________? |
| 9. By: Jason A. Churchill on 08-19-2011 19:34:02 This is the best the Mariner farm system has looked since Forever. There have been better top 5s, better No. 1s, Better top 10s, maybe, but taking a look at some older Top 10s and 30s from Baseball American 10-15 years ago, I can't see any that are better from top to bottom. Great mix of probability, upside and present value. |
| 10. By: Klatzy on 08-19-2011 19:51:20 Who were your biggest surprises? Walker? Catricala? (besides perhaps Ackley) Biggest disappointments? Robles? Franklin? |
| 11. By: Jason A. Churchill on 08-19-2011 20:21:11 ask those Qs in the chat, Klatzy! |
| 12. By: FWBrodie on 08-19-2011 21:04:17 That list is thick. Looks good. A bunch of guys being pushed out is a good sign. |
| 13. By: rocketdawg31 on 08-19-2011 22:26:55 I am one of those who is very enthused about the current shape of the system. To me, there's legit prospects at every level. I have to believe we have a Top 12-15 system now. |
| 14. By: davelee99 on 08-20-2011 11:49:50 21 of the 30 prospects are new to the Mariner system this year.. How unusual is that? |
| 15. By: hardball24 on 08-20-2011 11:54:33 Thanks for putting this list together, Jason. Unfortunately I couldn't make the chat but I have two questions: 1) Isn't it a little disappointing that only 1 of this year's draft class broke our top 10, or is that typical? 2) If you did include Treyvon in the list, where would he fall? |
| 16. By: maqman on 08-20-2011 13:33:38 Good work Jason, I don't have any gripes with your opinions. I'm glad to see you like Catricala as much as I do. It's darn near impossible to come to any other conclusion other than that our farm system has improved every year since Z arrived. The neat thing is being able to believe it will continue to get better every year he stays here. I hope they lock him up with a nice extension before the Cubbies try to poach him. |
| 17. By: dawgncarolina on 08-20-2011 15:40:47 "1) Isn't it a little disappointing that only 1 of this year's draft class broke our top 10, or is that typical?" Not Jason, but IMO this is a great sign. When you're drafting players in the 60s and below and they're already making your top 10 it probably means you're system is pretty weak. |
| 18. By: slamcactus on 08-20-2011 18:36:35 Didnt get to the chat, but no love for the Tony Butler career resurgence? Obviously you want to see him in the higher levels I've heard some good reports about his stuff. Was he close at all? |
| 19. By: Rudolf on 08-20-2011 19:37:26 Hey JAC, if Francisco Martinez develops to 80-90% of his ceiling, what kind of a player are we looking at? What would be absolute best case scenario? And here's a question for the masses: What approach do you take when you run into fans that bitch about the team in absolutes, i.e., they don't want to win a world series, they need to buy some hitters, they should have gotten out of Bavasi's hole by now, etc.? The cashier at Costco was so typical the other day and he couldn't believe I was optimistic about the future, especially the minor leagues. How does one reach these people, or can it be done? |
| 20. By: dawgncarolina on 08-20-2011 19:59:04 Leave them in their ignorance Rudolf. People like that don't want the truth, they just want someone to listen to them bitch. Let someone else be their victim. |
| 21. By: CyFelix on 08-21-2011 00:47:56 I can't wait until the pre-season top 30. It was awesome last year and with a better system, it should be more interesting. |
| 22. By: VikingArthur on 08-21-2011 16:06:03 What does Wily Mo Pena do? Crush sliders!!! His HR was still rising when it hit the rails out in center....wow. That guy is a monster! As for the system.. I am feeling so good about our system and young guys...Jack is doing the job. 2012 will be a 80-85 win team and 2013 and beyond we will be big time contenders. |
| 23. By: FelixElRey on 08-21-2011 16:06:54 Is it too early to be cheering for losses to get a better draft pick? I find that I've been clinging to that as a silver lining with these tough losses lately. Houston's obviously got number 1 locked up, but we could sneak into number 2 again with some help from Baltimore and KC. |
| 24. By: jsmitty on 08-21-2011 16:32:15 #19 Rudolf, If the masses want to bitch about this team (abosolutes or not) let 'em. They have every right to. Since 2004 this franchise has been pretty much a joke. $95 mill. a year(payroll) to watch mostly crap baseball. Since I began following the Mariners minor league system in 1999, this is the most excited I've ever been about their minor league prospects. But still, they're just prospects. I'm curious if Jack Z can play his cards right and field a competitive team next year...at the major league level. I'm sick of being Boston, New York and Anahiem's bitch. Year after year they slap us around like a rag doll. Rudolf, it sounds like you don't mind. |
| 25. By: dawgncarolina on 08-21-2011 16:57:57 "I'm sick of being Boston, New York and Anahiem's bitch. Year after year they slap us around like a rag doll. Rudolf, it sounds like you don't mind." You can be sick of losing without being an idiot and concluding that the team somehow doesn't want to win. Incompetence is not the same thing as indifference. |
| 26. By: jsmitty on 08-21-2011 17:23:08 #25 These people have passion for their Mariners. If they want to vent let 'em vent. Just because they don't follow the details as closely as we do on the blogs doesn't make them idiots and incompetent. The Mariner fan base has been through a lot of crap, give 'em a break. When you call your fellow Mariner fans idiots and incompetent you sound elitist. |
| 27. By: dawgncarolina on 08-21-2011 17:27:19 I was calling the front office incompetent, not the fans. And it's one thing to not pay attention to all the minutiae about the minor league system, it's another thing to reach wild conclusions about ownership. |
| 28. By: jsmitty on 08-21-2011 17:32:09 It's all good, man. We're all on this Mariner Crazy Train together. |
| 29. By: Rudolf on 08-21-2011 17:44:12 People can do whatever they want-- bitch, root, nothing-- that is understood. We've all been through a lot with the M's. Personally I find it foreign to blindly bitch about the team without scratching one centimeter deep to understand the situation. It's bitching for the sake of bitching. I like to think people are reasonable, but it seems many M's fans, (probably all fans), are ignorant and stubborn about it. Some of them are idiots, at least in this regard, and you can feel free to call me an elitist or worse. Maybe I'm the idiot who fell off the gripe train and lost touch with fandom. Maybe I should be pissed at the front office and direct my passion toward hating them. Maybe I should demand a power hitting MOTOB. |
| 30. By: jsmitty on 08-21-2011 17:52:22 We all have negative energy wathcing this team. I guess we all channel it differently. |
| 31. By: shemberry on 08-21-2011 18:52:08 So, what do we make of Casper Wells' recent hot streak? I have heard several people, since the trade, say that he is a 4th outfielder, but he sure seems to be showing that he is capable of more than that. I don't expect him to be Jose Bautista, but is it possible that he is much better than the pundits think? |
| 32. By: ceeds on 08-21-2011 19:36:25 Jason, You mentioned in Chat that Paxton would be the key piece of a deal potentially. He is going to be a great draw from North of the border anytime he starts at Safeco. What would it take for the M's to deal him? Probability? |
| 33. By: sexymarinersfan on 08-21-2011 22:22:04 Casper Wells would be a nice fall back option if a MOTOB LF is not obtained this offseason. Carp and Smoak would split time at 1B and DH while Trayvon could serve as a fourth OFer. |
| 34. By: rightwingrick on 08-22-2011 13:46:11 Nice list, maybe one miss in my book. Anthony Fernandez, 6'4" LHP who at 20 was 8-3, 2.58 for Everett last year, then was 2-0 with a 0.00 in the NW League Championship series...and his numbers this year at a higher level look very similar. He's in the Top 15 on my list. Pryor is also in the Top 15 in my list. I'd say this year that Johermyn Chavez and Nate Tenbrink are biggest disappointments in '11 in the minors. I also thought Tom Wilhelmson would dominate if sent down, and he didn't do that. Clearly, the Mike Carp story (patience and his hard work paid off) and the Kyle Seager progress, and Nick Franklin's continuing dominance are the best minor leage stories of '11 in my book. There's a bit of surprise in all of those, unlike Ackley and Pineda (they were expected to be in the major leagues this year, and probably show well...although they have probably exceeded first-year expectations). |
| 35. By: rightwingrick on 08-22-2011 13:48:32 And I should add Vinnie Catricala to the nice surprise list. He keeps proving he can hit, get on base, hit with power. Every level so far. Now if we can just find him a position. |
| 36. By: rocketdawg31 on 08-22-2011 17:45:59 According to Twitter, Anthony Vasquez makes his ML-debut tomorrow- starting the second (morning) game vs. Cleveland. |
| 37. By: dawgncarolina on 08-22-2011 18:18:04 That's awesome for Vasquez, I was bummed for him after they made him think he was getting called up after the Bedard/Fister trades. I hope he does well. |
| 38. By: rocketdawg31 on 08-22-2011 21:44:33 Post #36 edit: According to Twitter, Anthony Vasquez makes his ML-debut tomorrow- starting the second No clue what the corresponding 25 and 40- man moves will be yet. Sorry about that typo, peeps. I typed before the 2nd cup of coffee hit my brain, I guess. |
| 39. By: rjfrik on 08-23-2011 00:43:09 Does anyone else see a young Edgar in Catricala? It honestly a little weird. I really think we have a solid hitter on our hands here, if he can mature along the same path Edgar did, the sky's the limit in his hitting ability. |
| 40. By: johnfree on 08-23-2011 01:04:09 rjfnik, That's more then a little weird.... |
| 41. By: dawgncarolina on 08-23-2011 01:14:21 Edgar at least had a legitimate position when he was coming up, although it was "blocked" by Jim Pressley ("lol"). Gar was posting significantly better walk rates at equal or higher levels than Vinny has at the same age, too. I think Cat can be a legit big league hitter. He's not likely to be a deserving HOF'er like Gar. |
| 42. By: ndcohn on 08-23-2011 12:49:38 Edgar batted .258/.378/.353 as a 22 year old in AA. So, I think it's probably an understatement to suggest we have another Edgar. If he continues on Edgar's development path, we may have the first career .400 hitter! |
| 43. By: Edman on 08-23-2011 16:37:18 Edgar's minor league numbers were okay, but nothing that screamed all-star. It's a perfect example of how important ethic and drive are, once you get to the major leagues. If you're content with your abilities, you may be an adequate player, To be an all-star, it takes work. Felix couldn't rely on his stuff alone. He had to master it through drive and work ethic. |
| 44. By: dawgncarolina on 08-23-2011 17:03:58 Edgar always had elite level plate discipline, to go with good (through AA ball) to great (once he got to triple a) batting average and slugging. By the time he was 24 he looked like a potential star, at the least. The most difficult thing for a hitter to master is the strike zone. Gar handled it as well as almost anyone in the history of the game. |
| 45. By: Edman on 08-23-2011 17:15:15 As Mike Carp has learned, discipline doesn't mean much, if you're more concerned about working a count, than swinging at good pitches. I wouldn't say that Edgar looked like a potential star, any more than Mike Saunders did a couple years ago. The baseball minor league system is loaded with potential stars. Transision to star comes with work and a drive to be the best. Some have exceedingly good talent, and become average to above-average players, because they are content where they are. Star level players, in general, work their butts off to be the best. Gar's strikezone judgement amazing. To the point, where umpires gave him the benefit of the doubt, on close pitches. But, it didn't make him a good hitter. Working constantly to refine his game, extended his career and made him the player he is. Rob Johnson's OBP was nearly 100 points higher than his average, last year, but he couldn't hit a ball to save his life. |
| 46. By: Mackie on 08-23-2011 17:42:29 To get Anthony Vasquez onto the 25-man roster, the M's put Dan Cortes on the 15-day DL due to a left ankle injury he got on Sunday in Tampa and then aggravated in the first game of today's doubleheader. To get Vasquez onto the 40-man roster the Mariners released Matt Mangini. |
| 47. By: rjfrik on 08-23-2011 19:05:04 Remember the ages Far was when he went through the system, he became a much better hitter the older he got by a tremendous work ethic. The primary reason he is sitting on the HOF ballot list instead of being in cooperstown is because he didn't arrive in the bits until he was 26 and yes that had everything to do with the M's front office at the time seeing him as blocked at his position by Pressly which is a complete joke, would of never happened in todays age and Edgar would be in the hall. Hat really started to figure it out his last three years in the minors, I don't think Vinny will get those three extra years, as soon as he puts in a full year in tacoma I could see him up with the big league club. This front office operates on a sink or swim mentality, as they should The resemblance I see is pretty prominent between both players at the same age. |
| 48. By: VikingArthur on 08-24-2011 13:08:10 WHAT DOES WILY MO DO? CRUSHES MISTAKE PITCHES LIKE NO ONE ELSE!! Love that guy! I am so so excited about Seagar, Ackley, Carp, Pena and the bunch that I can watch a game without getting pissed off at Ichiro for being a 18 mil a year slappy. Ha, Ha. It is fun to be an M's fan right now. |
| 49. By: Lailoken on 08-24-2011 13:36:26 After the last two days & three games I'm not sure if Seager can hit major league pitching. :) Hope he keeps making adjustments. |
| 50. By: Missthosepilots on 08-24-2011 16:56:56 Seager and Carp don't have a position...but very glad to have them playing! I am sure there is a lot of growing pains ahead but it is wonderful to see the real capability to rebuilt....not retreads! |
| 51. By: StandinPat on 08-24-2011 19:57:16 "As Mike Carp has learned, discipline doesn't mean much, if you're more concerned about working a count, than swinging at good pitches." As has been discussed about players like Jose Lopez, standing up there and taking pitches just to take pitches isn't what anyone is referring to when they speak of plate discipline. As far as Carp goes, some of the difference has been being more aggressive, but a much bigger part of it has been him changing his body and his swing. It's not like he's suddenly not concerned with working a count. "Does anyone else see a young Edgar in Catricala?" "Edgar's minor league numbers were okay, but nothing that screamed all-star." Edgar walked almost TWICE as much as he struck out in the minors. That's an insane BB/K rate. Comparing anyone to Edgar is pretty crazy. The closest we've had to that level discipline and on-base ability has been Ackley, who had just over a 1:1 BB/K ratio. Catricala currently sits at .54:1 for his minor league career, not even close. "Seager and Carp don't have a position" Not really sure how you came to that conclusion. Carp is currently the best DH option, and Seager the best 3B option in the entire organization, and both have the ability to play atleast two other positions in a pinch. |
| 52. By: VikingArthur on 08-24-2011 20:57:51 Mike Carp has a position.... DH/1b/LF. It is only my blind love for Wily Mo that keeps me from just saying Carp is the everyday DH...period. I am not down on Smoak but he has to start hitting or his spot at 1b is, in my opinion, coming to a close. The M's are in serious need of a quantity for quality trade... who is the team to do it with? Not sure. It is a great problem to start having to worry about which good player is going to get ABs. |
| 53. By: Missthosepilots on 08-24-2011 22:51:00 Pat, I fully agree with you. Just did a lousy job repeating what so many have said perviously. It is fun when we surprised with the upside! |
| 54. By: d2ret on 08-24-2011 23:27:15 I wonder if we will claim or trade for Ramon Hernandez. Type A free agent most likely. |
| 55. By: Edman on 08-25-2011 01:00:40 I highly doubt Seattle puts in a claim for Hernandez. There would be no real purpose to do so. |
| 56. By: short on 08-25-2011 01:30:35 @52 Giving up on Smoak without at least another half-season, and probably a full one, would be insane. Smoak has more power potential than Carp as he is a bigger dude. Carp has had about the same amount of success...about two good months...in the Majors as Smoak. Smoak is six months younger. And Smoak has had a really bad year for freak injuries. He's my starting 1B next spring. Ichiro Ackley Smoak Carp Wells/Robinson Guti Ryan Olivo Not so bad? |
| 57. By: Edman on 08-25-2011 01:41:26 I went to the Aquasox game tonight, and was lucky enough to be sitting in front of Seattle's West Coast Scouting Supervisor, Butch Baccala. And, sitting next to him was Diamondbacks scout Donnie Reynolds. He shared a lot of information with me, of which I will not share here because I consider it confidential. I can tell you this, there were elements of the draft that were not apparent by the end results. I can share his personal thoughts that Miller is a legit prospect. He expect him to a very good player. He also believes Catricala's numbers are for real. Of course he is excited about a future rotation with Hultzen, Walker and Paxton. And he's excited about Pryor. He, like many here, thinks that Marder is a better catching prospect than Susac. He really likes his make-up. He's evidently a hard-nose player. Like some of us, he thinks the deal with the Tigers is better than what we got from Texas for Cliff Lee. We're already seeing some dividends from that deal. It was an unexpected highlight to my day. On top of it all, he was a genuinely nice man. I've seen many scouts at games, but never one as high up as him. He represented the Mariners well. I wish I could tell you more, but that wouldn't be fair. He was kind enough to share with me, and I will respect the good faith that he put in me to keep it to myself. |
| 58. By: d2ret on 08-25-2011 02:09:00 Nice insight. If the M's drafted Miller there, I have no doubt they must know hes a player. The young players are looking great, but I sure hope we finish bottom 4 to end up with either of the Williams kids, Nick or Trey |
| 59. By: dawgncarolina on 08-25-2011 08:00:32 I'm not sure I'd except the M's to get a top 4 pick at this point. The Cleveland series knocked them down to 5th, and they're within a few games of 8th. Considering the new talent on the team and the way they're playing, I think they're a better bet to get to the 6th or 7th pick than the 4th. I basically root for the offense to do great, the starter to pitch well, and whatever mediocre veteran reliever appears to blow the game. It hasn't been working too well of late. But I can't root against this offense. If they mash their way to losing a couple spots of draft position, so be it. This is fun. |
| 60. By: d2ret on 08-25-2011 08:51:49 Absolutely. Its only a preferance, but there are certainly nice players 6-10. Position players too. The top 5 worse teams look really bad too. Worse than the current M's |
| 61. By: dewey on 08-25-2011 10:54:27 Edman have you ever met Butch before? If not he just happened to like you and decided to share CONFIDENTIAL info with you? I imagine JZ would be very happy with that if this incident really happened and if it did he proably wont be around long. Also why would you use his name in this forum as they say you just threw the guy under the bus nice going if this really happened.??? |
| 62. By: Edman on 08-25-2011 11:23:03 Dewey, apparently you can't read so let me repeat it for you...... .... I consider it confidential Butch never said it was confidential, but I choose to treat it that way. I, unlike some, have ethics. And the last thing I'm going to do it put stuff up on the internet that gets repeated around baseball. I'm not going to jeopardize a person's career, just to please someone like you. He was kind enough to share his thoughts, so I see no harm in repeating what he thinks. We all have thoughts. I put his name out there because someone like you, would question the validity of what I said. And, apparently, I'm not incorrect in that assessment. This really happened, and you're free to believe what you want. I don't seek approval from anyone on the internet. But thank you, you've done a fine job of showing your true nature. |
| 63. By: dewey on 08-25-2011 13:15:39 Edman let me get this right he can tell a fan whatever he alledgedly told you and you can use his name on the internet but the info you consider confidental but he just told you some fan he has never met? Im confused ..My nature has nothing to do with it i just found it odd and all of us on this site our very well aware you need not seek any ones approval thats been made very clear. I have no idea who Butch is honestly and if a west coast cross checker is the highest ranking guy you have seen at a game you must not go often. |
| 64. By: Edman on 08-25-2011 13:35:10 Yes, that's exactly what happened. He was speaking fan to fan. However, he did share some information that is none of yours or anyone else's business. Why, is not my concern, only that I respect it's nature. Your nature has EVERYTHING to do with it. You confront anyone who doesn't believe what you believe. That's not in question. The fact that you're confused, really isn't that surprising. Only a pissant like you would find a problem with what I posted. Why? Simply because I wrote it and not somebody else. You have a problem with it, so what? Last I saw, people don't defer to your opinions. Probably the opposite, in most cases. Your attempts to discredit me are futile, at best. You offer up nothing other than cynicism. That's hardly in short supply on the internet. |
| 65. By: masonb on 08-25-2011 14:50:36 Edman, If I may chip in here. I didn't necessarily have a problem with what you posted, but my initial reaction to what you originally wrote was that of cynicism. I mean it doesn't make any sense for a scout to tell a random fan "confidential" info and it makes even less sense for you to come on here and claim you were privy to this confidential info but yet you refuse to share because you have ethics. You might have very well met the guy and he might have told you everything you are claiming he did, but you can't be that surprised and pissed and you surely shouldn't resort to namecalling just because someone calls b.s. on something that just doesn't pass the smell test. If the information was confidential as you are claiming it was then trust me, unless the guy is a complete moron or the most trusting person in the world, he isn't gonna share that information with someone he just met, especially when that person could easily turn around and reference his name like you did on the internet. |
| 66. By: rjfrik on 08-25-2011 15:36:22 I will chime in really quick on this. I think the problem Ed is that you name dropped. If you would of omitted the scouts name (like Jason does when he talks to scouts - he never ever uses the persons name when relaying any kind of info to us) I don't think you would of been getting the previous reply's. You should never drop names. Makes you look like the a Hollywood wannabe actor who was at the same party Tom Cruise was at and he asked you if he could use your lighter and now you're telling everyone Tom Cruise is your friend and you had this long conversation with him while you guys hung out back smoking cigarettes. Essentially dropping names makes you look like a douche. |
| 67. By: dewey on 08-25-2011 15:42:57 #65 and 66 thats what i was saying you guys just wrote it better. I got to go and play with my other piss ant friends later!...lol |
| 68. By: d2ret on 08-25-2011 15:44:00 It woulda been smart to ommit the name, however Edman is not a professional, just a laymen blogger like everyone else... dont be so hard on the dude. Edman I think you misused the word 'confidential'. Cause then you went on to talk about it. Maybe it was a 'private' conversation.. perhaps more accurate |
| 69. By: d2ret on 08-25-2011 15:50:37 C'mon guys, figure it out haha. If Butch Baccala told Edman what he did, hes not so dumb to share anything that could get him fired. The draft is over, so if he wants to talk to a fan about it personally, he's gonna know what he can say. What in the hell is so wrong with that people? Edman, just work on your writing, but I thought that was awsome insite. People got a stick up their ass. |
| 70. By: d2ret on 08-25-2011 15:58:55 Actually, looking back at your original post, you mentioned that info about the draft was 'confidential', but then went on to share other info. Makes perfect sense. My mistake, your writing is fine. Only, if it was truly 'confidential' he probably wouldnt have told you. I might be wrong. Otherwise, people really have a stick up their ass, this is not the CIA, its baseball. My god |
| 71. By: Edman on 08-25-2011 16:12:18 First off, I was not name dropping. Had I said "a scout" or a "prominent scout", I'd have been questioned about the authenticity of my claim. Jason isn't questioned, but anyone else would be. It happens all the time here. Then the question of "validity" comes up. So, I tried to avoid it up front. masonb, you hit the nail on the head. You bring up this kind of stuff, and the cynics come out. Had I simply put "a prominent scout" would you have been more or less cynical, than actually giving a name? I was careful only to give his opinion as a fan, nothing more. There is a huge difference in what is said to Jason, as a journalist, and to me as a fan. Did "the prominent scout" expect that I'd talk about meeting him on a forum like this? Probably not. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word confidential, but it was the kind of information that isn't my place to talk about it. Mentioning a private conversation would have likely been just as questioned. Especially on a public board. Trust me, I'll never talk about anything like this again. |
| 72. By: masonb on 08-25-2011 16:19:46 Edman, To answer your question, I wouldn't have been any less cynical. And I get the predicament you are in, if you wanna call it that. I wasn't calling you a liar or anything like that. My point was that whatever he told you wouldn't have been confidential, thus there was really no need for you to bring up the fact that you were witholding information from us because it was some private conversation between you and him. All that really had the effect of having was making you look arrogant. That whole not sharing things because you are looking out for his back thing wasn't even really necessary for you to say, and based off how you usually instigate stuff around here, you can't really expect anything less when you say something that's so easy to attack. People probably wouldn't question you so much if you weren't so arrogant about things. Just my .02 |
| 73. By: Edman on 08-25-2011 16:37:53 Wheither or not the information is confidential or not, I will not take a risk with anyone's career. If that's not a good enough reason, then that's too bad. I hope he doesn't catch hell for this. The continued discuss isn't helping any. |
| 74. By: aerichner on 08-25-2011 16:50:16 "The continued discuss isn't helping any." Hmmm I guess you should've thought about that before posting, huh? Anyway, it was good info. You came off a little bit as a dick but that's nothing new so don't you worry about that. :) Some people didn't like what you wrote or how you wrote it...who cares, big deal. Lets move on. In other news, I went to Clinton the other day and had a talk with one of our scouts, talked a little bit about baseball, the draft, the organization...but I wont mention it because it could be considered confidential. HOWEVER, he did tell me to try the Philly Cheesesteak Sandwich and to go back Aug. 27th for the season ticket raffle. |
| 75. By: aerichner on 08-25-2011 16:52:29 Oh and seriously, thanks for the info. |
| 76. By: JonathanAicardi on 08-25-2011 23:35:14 Speaking of prospects, anyone see Campos shit on another opponent tonight? 12 k's and 1 walk over 8. It's almost criminal. |
| 77. By: Rudolf on 08-26-2011 00:34:59 Yes. I was at the game. The stadium gun had him 91-92 all night, but about half his pitches were off-speed. He threw four or five off-speed pitches in a row at times. They couldn't hit the curve at all. |
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