| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 09-21-2011 |
Left field has been a sinkhole in Seattle for years, and it goes back a lot further than the past handful of seasons that has seen dozens attempt to hold down the position. Ken Griffey, Junior manned center field for 11 seasons and played alongside 37 different left fielders between 1989 and 1999. Seven saw time in left in 2010 and 11 have played there this season -- seven have played more than 10 games there.
Looking ahead to 2012, the Seattle Mariners could sign a free agent or make a trade in order to fill left field, but there are also legitimate candidates on the roster if all else fails. Let's take a glance.
Mike Carp
Carp is the best bat among the group, but is also the worst glove and probably belongs at first base. He's made progress defensively, however, and could still progress enough to become passable.
Though it doesn't appear he belongs there regularly, despite the potential for quality offense, Carp may still end up playing plenty of left field in 2012.
Trayvon Robinson
Robinson still has holes at the plate and may not be truly ready for the show until mid-2012. He runs well, plays defense -- despite the small-sample-size metrics he's posted this year -- and has upside at the plate, especially from the left side.
Robinson is still working on covering the outer half of the plate as a right-handed batter and dealing with breaking balls in general, but the swings are fairly sound and they each come with above-average bat speed.
Casper Wells
Wells may be the best combination of offense and defense, but also has the biggest gaping hole in his swing of the top three. Wells is hitting .154 on pitches on the outer half of the plate and is under .200 on pitches at the top of the strike zone.
He likes to extend his arms and when he's unable to do so has problems squaring up pitches, and all of his power to his pull side. All of it.
The Rest of the Field
Carlos Peguero, Greg Halman and Michael Saunders have also played some left field this season but none of the three are everyday options for 2012, or beyond.
Saunders is the best defender of the three and he and Halman can help in center as well -- something Wells and Robinson can also offer -- while Peguero has the most raw power of any of the aforementioned.
Overview
Unless one or more of the in-house candidates visits a great canadian pharmacy online, to boost up -- and it brings astronomical results -- the M's are very likely to target other options.
The fallback is likely a combination of Carp, Wells and Robinson, with Carp potentially getting some time at DH as long as he's producing at the plate.
After the 2011 schedule concludes, Prospect Insider will take a look at the possibilities for left field outside the organization. Don't miss that.
battle-of-the-left-fielders
Comments
The following 56 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: AntsInIn on 09-21-2011 17:51:50 Do you think the M's can snag any of the triumverate of troublesome OF prospects in the NL East: Brown, Morrison, Heyward? |
| 2. By: jgstecker on 09-21-2011 18:24:54 I won't be too disappointed if the team decides to take the current group of left fielders into 2012. I'd like to see Saunders and Wells earn a platoon out of Spring Training. Then they'd have Robinson and Catricala as backup plans. I still think Saunders has the potential to be an .800 OPS bat. |
| 3. By: Jason A. Churchill on 09-21-2011 18:39:31 AntsInIn, Brown and Heyward, not a chance. Morrison is at least remotely possible because he could legitimately be available. I'm with you, jg, but I think the club much prefers Trayvon to Saunders. I think some of them prefer Trayvon, at least long term, to Wells. |
| 4. By: rjfrik on 09-21-2011 21:05:01 So just a handful of games left guys and it looks like we should end up with the 3rd or 4th pick next year, so.... who's your guy? Deven Marrero SS Arizona State Nick Williams OF Ball High School (TX) Mike Zunino C Florida Gavin Cecchini SS United States Victor Roache 1B Georgia Southern Joey Gallo 3rd Bishop Gorman High School (NV) Byron Buxton OF Appling County High School (GA) Trey Williams 3rd Valencia High School (CA) Most mock drafts that I'm seeing have Hou, Minn. and Balt. taking Appel, Giolito and McCullers. So every top position player should be there and even if we slide to 5th I'm reading the Padres are on pitching as well. |
| 5. By: shemberry on 09-21-2011 22:37:53 It's early but I like Nick Williams. Seems to have huge upside. |
| 6. By: jgstecker on 09-21-2011 23:07:12 I agree that Robnson may be the best longterm answer. I just like Saunders for Opening Day because I think a) he deserves another shot and b) Robinson could benefit from a little more AAA time. What's the latest buzz on Halman? Is he done because he's burned his three options? Did the team do him a disservice by keeping him in the bigs too long this year? |
| 7. By: Jason A. Churchill on 09-21-2011 23:54:28 None of the above, people. None of the above. |
| 8. By: dewey on 09-22-2011 03:54:32 Ive allways been a Sauners guy but i think im wrong but with that said i really dont like Trayvon and the ability to strikeout all the time.All the guys we have acquired i like the Ghost the best atleast he has power.The thing that blows me away Pinedas numbers look like a 4th starter and we all say he was shut down because of innings he is 6 foot 7 260lbs when do we take the gloves off and let him pitch 225 innings? Im praying for results im a big time fan but we lose 93 this year from 101 is that good? I want some results next year before i buy tickets..Is that fair? |
| 9. By: Jason A. Churchill on 09-22-2011 04:31:43 Other than innings pitched, I'm wondering which of Pineda's numbers scream No. 4 starter. 3.41 FIP, 3.48 xFIP, 9.22 K/9, 3.76 ERA, 103 ERA+ ... No. 4? No. As for his workload, going from 140 innings to 225 is far from wise. And it's not just the innings, it's the pitches. Best example I can think of off the top of my head is Cole Hamels of the Phillies. In 2008 he threw 1100+ more pitches -- and 79 more innings iff both years include spring training, regular season and playoffs -- than he did in 2007. In 2009 his ERA went up a run and a quarter -- his postseason ERA was 7.58 after posting a 1.80 ERA in five starts the previous October. He simply wasn't the same pitcher. That has happened a lot more than some people realize, though the past couple of years we have seen clubs curb those increases. Every arm and situation is different but in no manner is an increase of 85 innings (140 to 225) a good idea, especially for a guy who has has two bouts with a sore elbow in the minors. Who cares if he's 6-7 and 260 pounds. It makes zero sense to take that kind of risk on a pitcher like Pineda (young, inexperienced, elbow issue history,) during a season in which the club is going to lose more than 90 games and have played their final 60+ games out of contention. -------------------- I still like Saunders enough, too, and I do like Robinson but in no way can the M's start 2012 with either one the everyday guy in left field and expect to compete. Wells, maybe, at least in a part-time role. |
| 10. By: edgar on 09-22-2011 09:19:27 By far the best option, if he can ever start hitting and quit taking so many pitches--is Saunders. If he hits he will be a gold glove all star. Robinson and Wells strike out way to much and are only average fielders. Robinson, especially, takes bat routes far too often. |
| 11. By: eknpdx on 09-22-2011 09:21:21 Saunders is out of options right? I wish there was enough material for a "Battle of the 3B" post. |
| 12. By: dewey on 09-22-2011 10:15:59 I guess im just looking at Pinedas post allstar 1-4 with a 5.12 ERA that has me concerned.He did have a solid overall year.Why i mentioned his size those guys our usually more durable then the smaller guys.Your right he isnt a 4 but what is he?Does he show number 1 stuff? At times yes but those guys like Felix etc they grind innings out every year i just think we have put him up to high myself what spot did he fit if he played on a good team for you Jason? |
| 13. By: skyway park on 09-22-2011 10:45:47 I have to admit I used to have a man crush on Saunders I thought he was going to be pretty good seemed like he had the whole package. I just don't see him making the adjustments that need to be done to be successful I think his time has passed with the M's. Robinson seems to have some thunder in his swing if he could make consistent contact he might turn out to be a good one but that's a big if. |
| 14. By: Shawnuel on 09-22-2011 11:10:24 #8 & #12 If you were talking about a guy who was in his 3rd season or in his mid 20's, I could see your concern, but Pineda didn't pitch an inning above AAA until this season, which he started in the big league rotation. He also had limited time in the minors due to injury and being fast tracked last season. Plus he just turned 23. Patience, sir! His first full MLB season was far above average for anyone, let alone someone of his age and Milb experience. He should be considered one of the more valuable pitching properties in the game. |
| 15. By: Edman on 09-22-2011 11:31:30 Pineda is fine. Felix didn't have #1 starter stuff in his first three years as a pro. Michael is learning. Being a great pitcher is about knowing how to adjust. Experience teaches that. Some pitchers have great pitching sense, some don't, when they first enter the league. But nearly everyone one of them had an adjustment period. I expect him to come back next year, ready to pitch. They will give him offseason goals and objectives. Certainly, they will want him to work on conditioning, so that he can add more innings. He does need to work on his first innings. In the second half, those are what hurt him the most. Either he needs to find a way to come out of the gate fast, or find another way to pitch in the first, until he gets command of his pitches. But, he'll be just fine. As for Saunders, he gets no more Major League chances, as far as I'm concerned. He's at a point where he's got to come out guns-a-blazing. He's on the outside looking in. If he want's to be a MLB ballplayer, he's got to prove that he's capable. The scout I talked to thought Saunders is a good change of scenery candidate. Sometimes, that's the best thing for a player. You hate to see them develop elsewhere, but it happens all the time. Some take two or more change of sceneries before they click. |
| 16. By: maqman on 09-22-2011 12:04:18 I still have hope for Saunders but get that he's running out of time to show he's a big league capable player. There are plenty of reasonable candidates for LF, one of them just needs to step up and take ownership. |
| 17. By: Jerry on 09-22-2011 13:23:09 I don't think we really need to choose between these guys. Depth is good. LF is one position where we can afford to be patient. I would let Saunders, Carp, and Wells battle for playing time in spring training. Hopefully Saunders can figure some things out and turn into a useful player, because he will get claimed by another club if he doesn't make the roster. Carp and Wells definitely belong on the team, regardless. Carp can play LF, 1B, and DH, and, as Jason mentioned, is the best bat of the bunch right now. Wells is arguably the best RH bat we have on the club right now (which is sad). He also plays good defense. I'd let those three play, and hope one or more emerges as a long term option. If not, Robinson, Chih-Hsien Chiang, Vinny Catricala, and Peguero as possible options. The place where we really need help is 3B. Too bad Catricala doesn't play good defense there. Jason, do you see any chance he improves enough to be average? |
| 18. By: Edman on 09-22-2011 14:07:20 Same was said about Seager, at the beginning of the year, that he didn't have the skills to play third. While he's no Beltre, he hasn't hurt the team either. I wouldn't say we need help at third, just yet. Seager will never be a power-hitter, but he could still be very useful. While many teams covet power-hitting thirdbasemen, there aren't that many available. We need hitters at all positions, period. As much as I was opposed to the idea of signing Fielder at the beginning of the year, I've reversed my postion. The Seattle farm system hasn't seen a player with that kind of power rise to the top. Carp is one, but not the same kind of power. Add someone like that to the middle of the line-up, and many things get a lot better. Wouldn't a healthy Smoak, Carp and Fielder be a vast improvement over what we started this season with? |
| 19. By: skyway park on 09-22-2011 14:23:28 I agree with what Edman just posted, over half the teams in the league would like to have a power hitting third basemen but in reality that's probably the hardest position to develop other then catcher. I think Seager will prove to be more then ok. |
| 20. By: jgstecker on 09-22-2011 15:09:51 Welcome to the crazy train, edman. I fully expect a post on here any day to beat down all us Fielder apologists. If I've got $20 million to spend this offseason I'll give it all to him and fill everything else in-house. Well, maybe I'd check the couch cushions to see if I can buy a LOOGY. Have you seen the free agent list yet? Anything else we might buy is going to be a disappointment. Sure in a few years we might regret his salary. Will it be worse than the $37 million we've shelled out to Ichiro/Figgins/Bradley each of the past two years? Absolutely not. Give me Fielder and I'll be happy with Seager at 3B. I'll take Carp in LF some. I'll make Smoak DH (at first). I'll put up with Furbush until I can get Paxton or Hultzen. I'll even take Ruffin closing out games if you think League's too pricey. |
| 21. By: rjfrik on 09-22-2011 21:24:39 Jason, If none of the above, then I would guess you think we will be taking pitching again next year. Makes sense if you are taking best player available as arguably the top 3 to 4 players are all pitchers next year. We are currently locked into the #3 pick. I definitely could see Jack and Co. taking a pitcher there as of now. ( yes I know it's nine months away) If so we need to start trading a few of these pitching chips for some bats. |
| 22. By: DKulich44 on 09-22-2011 23:42:25 Obviously Fielder is a good hitter. But is he a hitter this Mariners team needs right now? I don't think so at all. Even if Fielder plays to his full potential, that's only a 5-6 win player. Even if Smoak, Ackley, Seager, etc all improve we're still only looking at a roster that's good enough for 75-80 wins without any payroll flexibility. You will have well over 50% of payroll tied up going to three players in Ichiro, Felix, and Prince. There's a lot more holes than one middle of the order bat that pushes a vastly inferior fielder to Left Field in Carp. Sure, Fielder looks nice on paper, but I don't think it's the right fit. Not to mention how ugly a huge contract to Fielder will look if he declines in a few years. For all the complaining and moaning about Ichiro's contract, as well as the other huge contracts this team has given out over the years (Sexson, Silva/Bradley, etc.) you think the majority would have learned that paying top dollar on the free agent market isn't a great idea at this point. As soon as I saw the rumor Joey Votto could become available I had the same idea as Dave at USSM. He makes far more sense, is more cost controlled, and is a better fielder than Prince. Sure it will take a hefty package to pry him away, but he would be worth it. That's the type of move that should be made at this point, rather than blindly throwing money at an good but not superstar all bat first baseman. He may hit a couple long balls, get on base, and be the first real middle of the order hitter that Seattle has seen, but the team has a lot more holes than just one bat and tying up a majority of the payroll to one player isn't going to fix those problems. The Mariners have a ton of pitching talent at this point and can use that to net offense down the road. Spending will only tie the Mariners hands up at this point, and that's the exact position that got them to where they are today. |
| 23. By: slick on 09-23-2011 01:28:08 How about picking up Kubel this off season. Smoak 1b/DH Carp 1b/DH/LF Kubel DH/LF Wells 4th outfielder LF against lefties. Ship Suanders/Halman and maybe Robinson. |
| 24. By: Edman on 09-23-2011 04:32:41 Votto available? And just why would Cincy trade Votto. I was what was written and it was speculation at best. I can't see any reason why the Reds would be tempted to trade him. The reasons aren't very sound. Cost controlled = uber expensive in regard to the talent it would take to get him. Seattle has some pitching depth, but not enough that they should feel comfortable that they can ship it off, because the pipeline is full. Votto is in his prime, there is no way that the Reds trade him, unless some team gives then an insane offer. For Jack to sign Fielder, he would have to convince management that they need to extend the budget now, for the future. I'm all for getting a cost effective guy, but those trades don't happen often. Fans online like to speculate, because here, anything is possible. However, theory only plays out if it is balanced by reality. Teams don't trade guys like Votto when they are at their peak, unless they have glaring holes. And, it's not at all likely that they're going to want a package of minor leaguers. They're going to want some major league talent too. |
| 25. By: Edman on 09-23-2011 04:33:42 Okay, too many typos.....I need sleep. |
| 26. By: Sarcasticus on 09-23-2011 07:22:34 I don't think adding Fielder will work. Could you imagine the awkwardness of being named Prince in a clubhouse where there is a King? |
| 27. By: Jerry on 09-23-2011 09:54:30 Edman, That isn't true at all. The questions about Seager weren't about whether he could handle the position defensively. It was about whether he would hit enough to play there. He is more than adequate with the glove. In fact, he fits best at 2B, but that position is obviously filled for the M's. I think Seager is a good player, but is best in a utility role. He isn't terrible at SS, and can cover 3B and 2B. That's valuable. But penciling him into a starting role at 3B isn't a good idea. At the very least, they should bring in some other guys to compete for that job. Even if its someone like Wilson Betemit. I kinda go back and forth on the Prince Fielder topic. But the more I think about it, the more I think it would be a bad move. First, I don't think the M's are one player away from being really good. Second, they would be paying premium money for a guy with no defensive value and major concerns about his conditioning and how he will age going forward. Finally, it will probably take a 7 year contract to get him. Add that up, I think its too risky, especially given the teams current situation. I'd be cool with the M's just continuing with the rebuild, accumulating more talent, and waiting for the core of Smoak, Ackley, Pineda, Hultzen, Paxton, Carp, and whoever emerges among the glut of LF guys we currently have. Dave Cameron made a good case about how the M's need to get back to winning soon, or risk alienating the fan base. But if inking Prince Fielder to a Jason Worth type contract is what that means, I'd rather they just stay the course and keep building internally. |
| 28. By: Jerry on 09-23-2011 10:12:17 Additionally, I don't really like the idea of adding at 1B, even if it is a huge name. The Votto thing is an interesting idea, but if they are going to make a HUGE move like that, I'd rather see it be for a higher-value position. I'm hoping that another big-name player becomes available via trade. Last offseason, Justin Upton was made available (although at apparently huge cost). I'm not suggesting that Upton will be available again, but if the M's are going to trade a commodity like Pineda, why not wait for something that fits the clubs needs a bit more? I'd rather see them go after someone who plays SS, LF, RF, 3B, or C. And I'd rather see them target someone who is perhaps a bit less proven, but is under team control for longer. This is a young team. If you are going to trade a valuable piece like Pineda, why not go for a hitter who is a similar talent (young and with huge upside)? This club isn't a finished product. We aren't looking for that one last player to make a run for the playoffs. This team is terrible. I'd be focusing on younger talent that will help the club in the longer term. |
| 29. By: davelee99 on 09-23-2011 11:54:21 As we discuss payroll flexibility, remember that we're still on the hook for two more years of Mr Figgins, Combined salary for Ichiro, Felix and Figgins is appx $45M in 2012. Adding a $20M player to the mix will require some extarordinary decisions from whomever sets the budget. And there would still be major holes in the lineup... |
| 30. By: Edman on 09-23-2011 12:25:56 Dave Cameron is wrong as much or more than he's right. The idea that a guy like Votto is available isn't at all likely, without dramatically over paying......and, assuming that Cincinnati has a glaring hole to fill. I don't see either. His comment about alienating fans isn't accurate either. How many fans have they already lost? Seattle is like most towns without a deep baseball tradition. Winning will bring them in. Seattle will support a winning franchise. How much more could the pre 1990's Mariners have done to alienate fans, yet you couldn't get a seat in the Kingdome at the end of 1995 when they were in the playoff hunt. There isn't a soul that I can think of here who wouldn't support getting a cost-controlled run producer. That's a given. However, what teams give up their own cost-control to help out the M's or any other team? It's an extremely rare occurance. You're looking at teams like the Yankees, RedSox, Phillies, etc., who are trying to plug a hole. And, they get desparate enough to expand their payrolls. I don't see that kind of deal out there. The reality is, to get that kind of bat it will either take spending money, or trading for someone who is a fringe player at the moment, who can develop into that bat. Would Fielder help us next year? No, he would not be an investment for next year. He would be for 2013 on. He would add respect and presence. Don't you think it would help a guy like Carp, if he was hitting in front of Prince? Who would you rather throw a strike too, if you had to? As far as the money goes, you can't do anythign about the salary structure next season. If Seattle has a vision for 2013 and beyond, they have some tough decisions to make. Can they get another Free Agent bat next off-season? I don't see one anywhere close to Prince or Albert. So, if that's the kind of bat Seattle wants, now is the time. Will it hurt some next year? Yes. Will it be a value in 2013, 2014, 2015 and on, if they become a playoff caliber team? Absolutely. So, we all get to sit and watch what happens. Which direction will the Mariners take? |
| 31. By: subterranean on 09-23-2011 12:56:35 ugh - seems to me the M's were in the playoff hunt this year (for half a season, remarkably) and that didn't do a damn thing. I think it is difficult to draw parallels back to 1995, to a team that featured some dynamic 'generational' players in a stadium that seemed built for dingers. And Safeco certainly helped boost attendance, but that whole effect wears off with time. I think there is a justified concern about losing a fanbase and not getting it back, even if the team starts winning (like Cleveland did for half the year. I actually think that signing Votto would do more for the fan apathy than somehow staying in contention with a team that is awful to watch. I also think that it is a misnomer that teams overpay in trades for superstars - some times they do - but often I've been surprised in how little a team has received (thinking of C.C., Santana, Lee - granted they are all pitchers). And unless you inquire, you don't know if he is available or not. I didn't think we would land Lee, but we pulled it off. Ultimately, I think the Votto suggestion is more about dealing from our assets rather than entering a bidding war a la Bavasi and overpaying on an overly long commitment. Frankly, I would love to go after Zimmerman as well. You may not agree that getting Votto is 'likely' but that doesn't make it 'wrong.' |
| 32. By: VikingArthur on 09-23-2011 13:29:42 The idea that we could get Votto for anything less than everyone we have is absurd. May as well trade for Justin Upton and Matt Kemp while we are living in fantasy land. Hell.. go get Kershaw and Lincecum too! Back here in the real world.. we have to be smart. Fielder would help but I can't get behind the type of $$ it will take to land him and if his past is any barometer he will be somewhat disruptive if we don't win. Good player, not the right fit. The idea of Zimmerman is a good one.. but I think he is the mature face of the franchise on a franchise that is about to hit the big time with Strasburg and Harper on the scene. I think it is most prudent to make some minor additions in the offseason via FA, look around for trades and then strike big next year at the deadline with a team that is struggling in the standings and bank account (Wright/Longoria rings a bell)... **I know Longoria has a pretty darn friendly contract but their payroll flexibility is near zero. Those are more realistic options than prying away ELITE (Votto is the elite of the elite) guys in their prime. (I don't consider Wright or Longoria in the same breath with Votto). |
| 33. By: DKulich44 on 09-23-2011 13:37:20 Edman, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Dave Cameron has a much better track record of success, connections, and is in a much better position to say who he believes may or may not be available than you do. That's no insult at you, he just is. Now, to say he's wrong more often than he's right is completely inaccurate. He's gotten to the position he currently has by being successful and quite a baseball mind. Also, he's far from the only person to say the Reds may have to move Votto. It's been said a couple places by a couple people with good connections. They're in a similar situation as the Mariners were with Felix before Felix signed his extension, and have made no progress in inking him to that extension. His value right now is as high as it will ever be, and instead of letting him walk in two seasons, the best move for them to make may be to trade him. They have a suitable replacement for him in Alonso as well. Yes, it would have to be a blockbuster, and yes I would definitely include Pineda in that deal. Votto is a bonafide superstar. If the Reds feel they can ink him, then sure, he's off the table. But it doesn't seem like they may be able to, and if that's the case then they may have to trade him. If that scenario does happen, the Mariners need to be on the line immediately and really think about moving Pineda. Viking, As for Longoria not being elite, and hindering the Rays payroll, that's just asinine. Longoria might be the best player in the AL, and has the best contract in baseball. There's no way the Rays move him at all, they have him tied up for a very long time with a very small amount of money going his way. Votto's contract status is much more ugly as he's only signed for two more years, with the second being around 17 million dollars. |
| 34. By: VikingArthur on 09-23-2011 14:27:34 DKulich.. I would definitely agree with giving up Pineda and something else good for Votto. NO BRAINER.. he is better than Fielder for sure. I just wonder what it would take Pineda, Franklin and smaller pieces? "Longoria may be the best player in the AL"? That is laughable. He isn't top 10 in the AL. He is one of the most overrated players in the AL to be sure. Your point about his contract is valid. |
| 35. By: DKulich44 on 09-23-2011 15:20:29 How is it laughable? Longoria is arguably the best player at one of the weakest positions in baseball right now. Sure, his average is slightly down this season, but all his numbers are in line with his career numbers except AVG and BABIP. He's fine. He's a 26 year old elite bat playing a very tough spot on the diamond. He's also one of the top gloves at 3B. Since 2008 he's second in fWAR only to Albert Pujols in all of baseball. Obviously not all of that is tied up in his defense and its a pretty large sample that's stayed relatively stable. Hard to say that it's fluky. It's far more laughable to think that Longoria isn't one of the elite players in baseball, and arguably the best in the AL right now. |
| 36. By: zackr on 09-23-2011 16:08:35 See what DK did there Viking... He backed up his point with actual discernible facts. That's generally what you want to do when making an argument. Otherwise, you are just wasting your time. |
| 37. By: rjfrik on 09-23-2011 17:18:14 What DK44 said in 33 is exactly correct. Votto being available has nothing to do with his talent or baseball skills and has everything to do with his contract. The Reds will entertain offers because Joey doesn't want back in Cincci after his contracts up unless the Reds hand over vault full of money and they are reluctant to do that, especially because they have an absolute stud hitter waiting to play 1b for them. If they can't sign him, you better bet the farm they aren't going to sit on their hands and take a couple of measly draft picks, they will trade him. The best thing about the M's is they have a plethora of top flight pitching, excluding King, 3-4 guys who could potentially be Aces. And if we keep the are hold on the number 3 pick for next years draft that number becomes 4-5 because the best three players in the draft are pitchers. Some of that stock pile of pitching will be moved for hitting. Frankly I wish they would of done it this year, Pineda for Lawrie would of been a fair trade and I could of seen the Brew Crew do that over Marcum and frankly I would love to have one of the best young hitters man the corner for the next five years. Go get some bats!! |
| 38. By: KingFelix on 09-23-2011 20:04:52 I agree completely with Edman, Prince will help us in 2012 but will be key to a playoff runs in 13,14 and 15. In 2013 Ichiro's 18.5M comes off the books and in addition to the cash all we lose is a 2nd round pick. We have been wasting money for years going after 2nd tier FA going on the cheap. It is time to step up and get a real MOTO bat in this lineup to help the young guys develop. I could live with the lineup below in 2012: RF Ichiro CF Gutz 2B Ackley 1B/DH Prince DH/1B Smoak LF Carp / Wells C Olivio SS Ryan / Franklin in 2013 3B Seager R Felix R Pineda L Vargas R Beaven L Paxton |
| 39. By: VikingArthur on 09-23-2011 20:44:55 Facts on Longoria? Ok... Color me unimpressed at a career .871 OPS. Superstar? Laughable. He would barely place in the top 30 active players if he had enough ABs. Already missed 35+ games in a season twice as a 26 year old. He's a bit brittle for my taste. You can have your own opinion on Longoria but it is not some slam dunk fact that he is a superstar. Is he better than most 3bs in the league? Yep. Best player overall? Not close. I understand his WAR numbers are outstanding..but so were Franklin Gutierrez's highlighting the limitations of WAR at times. He is a good fielder and a good hitter, not great at either. But his contract is absurdly great.. so he is not really a relevant discussion point when talking about the Mariners. |
| 40. By: Blowgun7 on 09-23-2011 21:24:01 Reds are not trading Votto.. and if they did it would take a package built around Ackley and Pineda.. This is another Dave Cameron far fetched idea... just like dealing Jose Lopez for John Danks For a guy who makes his living writing about baseball, he can't come up with a realistic M's trade to save his life |
| 41. By: DKulich44 on 09-23-2011 22:16:23 Longoria's career wOBA of .372 has him well within the top tier of hitters, and his defense at a position of scarcity makes him quite the player. He's an elite glove and an excellent hitter at a position that is currently one of the weakest in the league. To me, that's a superstar. Most of the hitters ahead of him are slugging 1B with limited value defensively or baserunning. No matter the defensive metric other measuring tool you use for defense, Longoria ranks as elite. He's a far better player than Fielder and right there with Votto. In the AL Joey Bautista, Josh Hamilton and Adrian Gonzalez all are right there as well, but all come with their limitations. I'll take the guy who's consistently put up great value each year (even this year in a "down" year). You're vastly underrating his value as a run stopper and baserunner and overrating the ability of no glove first basemen. You say Franklin Gutierrez is a good example of why WAR doesn't work, which is true over a one year period. Over Longoria's four year sample he's produced the most WAR in the AL, while missing a handful of games. Sure, I'll give you that he may seem injury prone, but I'm still taking Longoria as a position player to start my franchise with. |
| 42. By: southpaw360 on 09-24-2011 03:21:43 I would love to see Carlos Quentin manning Left Field for the Mariners. I read somewhere (MLBTraderumors??) that there is a good chance he could be had this winter. I'm not sure what I would give up for him but I would assume the price wouldn't be that steep. |
| 43. By: dewey on 09-24-2011 03:47:51 Su we have Olivo ,225 18 hr and a bad catcher..1b Smoak ,235 14 HR ok defense,Ackley .280 6 hr avg defense at best,Ryan .248 good defense no power, Seager,,259 no power..lf i dont even want to talk about that junk..CF guti im not sure i donty think anyone is,,Itch RF a fading superstar who is still a above avg singles hitter Dh Carp might be our best guy...My problem is we have no power and avg defense at best...Rotation Felix,Pineda 2 blank holes and Beaven this is my team and a very bad team we will lose 93 this year and more next year..How do we get better with out spending on the Free agent market? I love the Mariners but between Bavasi and a small sample of Jack all ive ever heard is the future how about now? We Suck... |
| 44. By: ryujin on 09-24-2011 04:06:49 @dewey (comment 43) - LOL |
| 45. By: Lailoken on 09-24-2011 12:03:17 Quentin has not been a very good outfielder in his twenties (-9.2 UZR/150), putting him in Safeco's spacious LF would be tough to watch on a regular basis. He did better in the field in 2011 but I still figure he's a DH soon if he regresses to his 2009 (-25.2 UZR/150) & 2010 (-35) horridness. Those last two figures were his age 26 & 27 seasons. Yikes. He is the kind of bat that could mature a la Ibanez where the left-handed power & patience age into better production. |
| 46. By: aerichner on 09-24-2011 16:38:09 Edman, what do you suggest the Mariners do this offseason, be specific and give names if possible. In a week you've tried to squash the ideas of Jim Bowden and Dave Cameron which is fine, but it'd be great if you said what the team could/should do. I mentioned what Jim Bowden said about Choo to which you said - By: Edman on 09-14-2011 14:07:43 Jim Bowden assumes that the Indians would trade Choo. A very bold assumption, and not likely and then Jason said: By: Jason A. Churchill on 09-14-2011 14:15:20 Choo will be available because of his contract situation and his agent being Scott Boras. It doesn't mean he absolutely WILL get traded, but he's going to be out there, no doubt about it. Now Dave Cameron is throwing the idea about who to target and you're bashing that one too. Yeah, I know it's not likely Votto gets dealt but who knows, Cliff Lee got dealt 3 times in what, 12 months? Joey Votto SHOULD be the target before spending 20 million per year on Prince. Funny how you used to bash that Prince idea too for months and now you're all of a sudden on that bandwagon. Cool |
| 47. By: Edman on 09-25-2011 01:01:05 No, I won't respond to you, aerichner, because you're not asking a question, you're simply throwing out a personal insult and masking it as a question. Not gonna play. |
| 48. By: marinerforever on 09-25-2011 02:26:55 For everyone who is on the votto bandwagon it is gonna cost pineda league and franlin and votto only has one more year before he hits superstar money. To replace what you traded away would cost more than what you would save in one cheap year of votto Sign prince cost no talent and would change the complexion of the team not to mention what you would get from ticket sales and jersey sales Then if you wanna pull of a trade go for a third baseman like wright. Then imagine your lineup Dewey If you think ackley is baely average at second base for defense you are nuts ackley is on his way too being superstar secondbasemen oh and brandon ryan is the best shortstop defesively in the game the last two years The mariners are going to be fine just give gmz this offseason. Can't wait |
| 49. By: maqman on 09-25-2011 13:44:56 Don't get the hots for Votto, first read: http://redlegnation.com/2011/09/23/why-you-dont-trade-joey-votto/ |
| 50. By: dewey on 09-26-2011 09:39:33 Is Trayvons middle name KKKK he sure does it alot.Whilhelmsen and Delabar our great finds by the Mariners i think they can both help our pen next year but like ive said alot we need to find power in this lineup.I was thinking about Texas the other day and Cruz and Hamilton will out Homer our outfield by alot and they both where on the injured list this year |
| 51. By: skyway park on 09-26-2011 13:03:02 Looks like were in a battle with the O's for the 3rd pick in the draft being up 1 with 3 to play. Go M's |
| 52. By: shemberry on 09-26-2011 16:01:26 The good news about the third pick is that if we end up tied with the O's we still get the third pick because the tie breaker is winning percentage from last season! So, we can win 1 more game than Baltimore this week and still pick third! |
| 53. By: rjfrik on 09-26-2011 17:25:24 So really we are up 2. Even if they go 0-3 we would have to go 2-1 for them to get third. Nice position to be in. Also they have been playing very well as of late. I think at worst they go 1-2 so that means we would have to sweep the series with the A's. I remember last time we were in this position, except it was for the number 1 pick and we ended up sweeping the damn A's to fall out. But in hindsight, I would rather have Ackley even though Strasburg is a freak. It looks as if we might end up with another pitcher with that 3rd pick next year. Top three players as of now are pitchers in my opinion. Going to be interesting. |
| 54. By: southpaw360 on 09-26-2011 19:36:20 Re: 53 If the Mariners had Strasburg you could trade Felix or Pineda for a huge haul and not have to worry about the rotation. I like Ackley but I love Strasburg even coming off injury. |
| 55. By: dawgncarolina on 09-27-2011 10:25:57 "For everyone who is on the votto bandwagon it is gonna cost pineda league and franklin" I make that trade in a nanosecond. That gives you a real shot at contention in 2013, before Votto hits the market. |
| 56. By: marinerforever on 09-27-2011 12:11:56 the knock on prince is not that he wont produce in 2012, its that there is concern that he will not produce in 2015. So, is votto that much better than prince that the mariners can lose pineda and league and still come out ahead? While you could potentially offset the loss of pineda and league via free agency, the cost in dollars of adding those players and votto would equal what the mariners would spend on prince in 2012. In 2014, the mariners would be giving votto a prince sized contract anyway. In conclusion, Votto will cost more in talent to acquire and cost the same in dollars (Votto+FA replacements) while providing similar production in the near-term. There are legitimate concerns that Prince could break down, there is also the possibilty that he is a freak and will continue to stay healthy and productive throughout the length of the contract. There should also be concerns that Votto would not resign in Seattle. It seems to me that trading talent away from a team which clearly lacks the talent to compete is not the recipe for success. Money is cheap, talent is not. |
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