| By Chris Crawford |  | By 10-01-2010 |
With the year all but wrapped up in a nice little (disgusting) package -- it seems now is the time to get the discussions going on the many different moves Seattle is going to have to make this late-fall/winter. Up first, who's going to manager this team. Here's a list of candidates that could/should be considered.
Daren Brown: Brown was handed a sinking ship when he took over for Don Wakamatsu on August 9th -- and while there were early signs that Brown might be an answer for the 2011 season -- the end of the year brought about just as many questions as it did answers. No one was expecting the 43-year old to take the team to the playoffs, but improvement had to be one of the things Jack Zduriencik is looking for, and the overall record speaks to very little. Brown has an advantage in having worked with so many of the current players, and the overall consensus is he is well liked in the clubhouse and by management. Whether or not that's good enough to keep the job is another thing entirely.
Ted Simmons
Simmons -- currently the bench coach of the San Diego Padres -- has emerged as the hot candidate for 2011 managerial search, and justifiably so. Simmons, a former catcher for the Braves, Cardinals and Brewers, also has a front-office background having served as a general manager for a year in Pittsburgh and director of player development for two clubs. The 61 year-old Simmons may have his pick of jobs this off-season, but would be a solid addition to the M's bench next year.
Joey Cora
Cora currently serves as Ozzie Guillen's right-hand man in Chicago, and was a finalist for the job in 2008. The former Mariner second-baseman is known for being very highly thought of by Latin-American players -- and with Guillen's numerous ejections and suspensions -- the 45 year old has had several opportunities to manage. There are worse candidates, but a Cora hiring feels a bit like a public relation move over a baseball decision. It would behoove the Mariners to put both Brown and Simmons well above Cora in the managerial search.
Bobby Valentine
Valentine is the enigma of the Mariner manager search. Another former Mariner, the current ESPN analyst has had previous success with the New York Mets, and to a lesser extent with the Texas Rangers. The 60 year old Valentine is also well known for his success in Japan, and some early reports state that Ichiro would be in favor of his hiring. There are the obvious detractors to Valentine as well -- as his reputation is as someone who is difficult to work with, who sometimes becomes a bigger story than the team itself. A Valentine hiring makes sense if the team looks to spend money and make trades to make it a 2011 contender, but not in a rebuilding situation. Since the first option is unlikely to happen, Valentine as a Mariner isn't very likely either.
Willie Randolph
Randolph, another former Met manager, might be the most logical choice to become the next manager of the Seattle Mariners. The former Yankee second baseman and current bench coach for Milwaukee has worked underneath Joe Torre for ten years and lead to the Mets to the NLCS in his second year, losing to the eventual champion Cardinals in seven games. Randolph and former Met GM Omar Minaya didn't see eye to eye, and he was eventually fired in one of the least professional dismissals on record. Randolph makes sense not only due to his previous success, but the 56 year old has previous experience with the current front office. Randolph may not be the favorite right now, but it wouldn't stun anyone to see Randolph in teal and blue in 2011.
There are other candidates out there: Eric Wedge, Jose Oquendo, Dave Magadan to name a few. Now the question is: Who do you want to manage the 2011 Seattle Mariners?
discussion:-2011-manager
Comments
The following 41 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: gwangung on 10-01-2010 14:33:50 Hm. Cora being a former fan favorite should not a major plus or minus for him. If he emerges as a strong candidate, it should be on his merits as a manager; his PR value is a second or third order consideration, when all other things are totalled up, |
| 2. By: rocketdawg31 on 10-01-2010 14:34:09 Now the question is: Who do you want to manage the 2011 Seattle Mariners? And an intriguing question that is. I'm well-known for my loathing of Valentine, and won't reiterate that. But, whoever skippers this crew is almost certainly going to have an awful lot of young players to shepherd- both immediately and in the next few years. For some reason, the name Clint Hurdle makes sense to me on this front. Likable cuss, he did do exactly that with the Rockies a couple seasons ago- take young players and made them a playoff contender. But Hurdle's never been known as a strategically sharp guy, to my knowledge- he can be out-maneuvered. And I'd love to have a manager who doesn't have baffling lapses of Baseball 101, like Don Wakamatsu could be accused of having. Willie Randolph makes as much sense to me as anybody, and certainly I think he's done enough of a creditable job in the past to merit another shot. I'm going to think about this more in-depth, but my top three preferences as they stand right now would be: Hurdle, Randolph, Wedge. |
| 3. By: brianc1279 on 10-01-2010 14:35:28 I hope they stay away from Dusty Baker....I think our bullpen is one of the bright spots on this team and I would hate to see it get demolished by bad coaching. If we are still in rebuilding mode next year than Daren Brown would be okay but I have a feeling that Jack Z is going to need a few more wins for job security. I'm leaning towards Bobby Valentine or if Tony Larusa is available I would go in that direction. On a side note im going to be upset if they dont give Jack Z at least 4 or 5 years to rebuild this team after the mess that Bavasi left. I think that regardless of manager selection they need to find a FA bat to help out this offense or we will be looking for another manager at this time next year. |
| 4. By: SethGrandpa on 10-01-2010 15:18:19 The thought of Willie Randolph as M's manager just made me throw up a little bit in the back of my mouth. |
| 5. By: skyway park on 10-01-2010 15:22:33 Is Sandberg a done deal in Chicago? We need a Manager who isn't afraid to kick people in the rear if needed. No more nice guys. |
| 6. By: gwangung on 10-01-2010 15:38:43 Meh. Kicking people in the rear is at the very BOTTOM of my list for managers. That sort of thing is the first resort of the incompetent. |
| 7. By: Chris Crawford on 10-01-2010 15:41:59 Willie Randolph would be fine. That people treat him as the scapegoat of the Mets is silly -- the front office there gave him a cluster of crap and spent a lot of money on it, and expected Randolph to solve it. I don't give credit to people who don't succeed but have a valid excuse, but every front-office guy I've talked to has said that Randolph would be a fine choice. |
| 8. By: SethGrandpa on 10-01-2010 15:48:29 Chris - Did all those front office people miss how the Mets collapsed down the stretch 2007 AND 2008? Doesn't that have to fall on the manager? The Mets had enough talent to build up those leads, so I find it hard to pin those chokes on the front office. |
| 9. By: Chris Crawford on 10-01-2010 16:00:19 1. Jerry Manuel was apart of one collapse, Randolph the other. 2. For every collapse he has, he has a trip to the NLCS. 3. I'm not saying Willie Randolph is Casey Stangel -- I'm saying he's a viable candidate who easily deserves a second chance -- especially after the atrocious way he was fired. |
| 10. By: furlong on 10-01-2010 16:38:51 I really like Brown give him a three year contract and get out of his way. |
| 11. By: VikingArthur on 10-01-2010 21:26:40 Willie Randolph is a joke. He offers nothing. Brown would be fine. It doesn't matter who manages this team at this point, when you can't hit, you can't hit. All that our manager needs to do is pencil in Ackley, Moore, Saunders, etc in the lineup six days a week and take his 100 losses like a man. |
| 12. By: mauricewilliamsiii on 10-01-2010 22:20:18 Randolph is a joke? No, Wakamatsu and Brown are the jokes and those jokes are on us as fans. I wanted Valentine at the outset but after some of the things he has said about the organization I would rather have Randolph and would be thrilled if he was manager. For those who like Wak and Brown I would suggest they get on a rehire Hargrove bandwagon, at least he could manage his way out of a wet paper bag on occasion, Wak and Brown sure never could. |
| 13. By: Chris Crawford on 10-01-2010 22:55:31 Well now that you've said he offers nothing, Arthur, and added nothing as to why, I completely retract my statement. Thank you for letting me see the error in my ways. |
| 14. By: Lonnie on 10-01-2010 23:05:52 Until the day comes that Ryne Sandberg signs on the dotted line to become the new Cubs manager he will be at the top of my list. After him I'd like to see a combination of Bobby Valentine as the manager with Darren Brown as his bench coach. Bobby V is good for a three year stretch and will then wear out his welcome. During that time Brown will be learning about the game at the MLB level and will be ready to step in. I like that scenario, but if that isn't doable I would like to point out that I'm available... Lonnie |
| 15. By: Perry Noid on 10-02-2010 01:50:21 Where have you gone, Daniel Rohn? Mariner Nation turns it's lonely eyes to you. Wooo oooo. |
| 16. By: Jerry on 10-02-2010 10:19:17 Can I just say: "Who cares?" Honestly, I don't think that we, as outsiders, have anything close to a good feel for who these guys are and who is a good fit. I think the M's would be wise to look for a manager and coaches who are good with player development and working with young guys. The 2011 team is likely to have a lot of young players, and will be bringing up more in the next season as well. Beyond that, what do we really know about this? Is Bobby Valentine really not good with young players? I have no idea. Is Darren Brown? He knows the guys from his experience at Tacoma, but is that a good thing? Would it be best to bring in someone from the outside, considering how bad this club is? Since we don't really have any idea what goes on in the clubhouse, I don't think we are in a good position to evaluate these guys at all. Thus, I can understand Chris' frustration when people say things like "Randolf offers nothing!" How could any of us possibly know that? |
| 17. By: petermag on 10-02-2010 10:24:39 I think Sandberg is the ideal fit. 1. Been doing a good job of developing young talent past four years. 2. He's been winning in the minors. 3. He'll command instant respect. 4. Our top prospect is still learning second base. 5. He has shown that he wants it and put in his time. 6. Understands an org. that has been close but never has won it all. 7. The scioscia effect. He has the fire and wants to prove Chicago wrong. 8. Local ties. 9. I know we don't want to admit it, but hes marketable. 2. Simmons 3. Brown 4. Rohn |
| 18. By: Jerry on 10-02-2010 10:40:35 In other news..... With their loss yesterday, and wins by Arizona and Baltimore, the M's have clinched the 2nd pick in the 2011 draft!!! I have to admit that I have been watching the standings and hoping the M's wouldn't put together a win streak at the end of the year and slide down to #3 or #4 in the draft. Now that they have clinched the second worst record in baseball, there isn't any internal conflict about whether they win or lose. Should be fun to follow the draft over the next several months. |
| 19. By: ripperlv on 10-02-2010 12:54:23 I thought I heard (don't know where) that a manager with previous experience is a priority. If that's the case I like Kirt Gibson, but I think the Dbacks will keep him. I also like Jim Fregosi over Randolph, but consider Randolp qualified, if not a bit of a safe pick but the Brewers will sign him. I also like Don Baylor. If previous experience is not required, I think Simmons, Sanberg and Tim Wallach are outstanding canidates. And why not throw Bryan Price into the mix as well. Gibson and Wallach being my two favorites. |
| 20. By: maqman on 10-02-2010 13:25:29 I've liked Bryan Price since he was the Ms pitching coach, a smart man. Mike Quade the Cubs temporary and maybe permanent manager choice has done an impressive job with them but might be passed over for Ryne Sandberg. Either of them is worth considering. I like Gibson but he's staying in Arizona. Jim Fregosi, Valentine and Larry Bowa appeal to me out of the prior managers available. Brown, like Wak, is a nice guy but just doesn't seem to have the gravitas required. |
| 21. By: ghill34 on 10-02-2010 22:06:28 Clint Hurdle makes a lot of sense. First, in response to an earlier comment: Hurdle was not exactly a bad strategist, and even if he were, it wouldn't be as exposed in the American League. Make up the lineup, give green lights to 3 or 4 guys, and let em play. Hurdle is also a very well respected hitting coach. This would go a long way to "developing" our younger players (Smoak, Ackley, etc.) at the big league level to become big league hitters. Remember the last offensive minded/hitting guru that managed a team to the World Series, later lost his job and then got another managerial job?? That's right, Charlie Manuel. Worked out pretty well for the Phillies. Hurdle did a great job in Colorado of nurturing high level propects and turning them into big league hitters (Holliday, Tulo, Hawpe), while also creating a winning attitude in the clubhouse, one that younger players truely enjoyed every day. |
| 22. By: gwangung on 10-02-2010 23:45:22 Actually, what makes most sense is the managerial candidate that can best recognize who's a good baseball player, taking into consideration offense AND defense, or seeing who has the potential to become the best player. The nuts and bolts of hitting and defensive mechanics is secondary to that. Not sure which of these candidates are most in tune to using modern methods (I.e., methods Zduriencik uses) to determine this. |
| 23. By: Missthosepilots on 10-02-2010 23:50:07 Hurdle would be like a head football coach. Should rely on offense and defense coordinators. Great with players and a good hitters coach. I was impressed with him here in Colorado. But the same was said of Cockrell here too. Maury Wills anyone? |
| 24. By: baseballman on 10-03-2010 01:29:27 This is off topic but, now that we basically are the 2nd pick in next years draft, who is else is excited about getting Springer? I know I am, and I cant wait to see Smoak and Springer hitting back to back with Ackley either leading off or batting 2nd. But then again, we could go after Cole and have 3 aces in our rotation with Felix, Pineda and Cole (Pineda would likely be shipped for a bat but...) |
| 25. By: Darren_S on 10-03-2010 03:15:32 I wouldn't be comfortable taking Springer at 2 at this point. The K's are concerning and Cole seems like a safer bet to succeed at the major league level. If he improves this year though the idea of adding his bat is very appealing. As far as the manager goes I don't really have a preference but I hope we get someone who works well with our young hitters. |
| 26. By: VikingArthur on 10-03-2010 04:57:59 #13 Willie Randolph presided over a team that pulled a colossal choke job. None of his players showed any improvement and he handled his pitching staff with a Bakeresque hand. He is a nobody retread that has done anything. Let's face facts...if he was not well known former Yankee he would be lucky to be managing at the A ball level. Brown would be fine for next year and probably the year after. The idea that baseball managers make a significant difference is silly anyway. |
| 27. By: VikingArthur on 10-03-2010 05:03:01 A .544 winning percentage with a team that had a ton of talent and a massive payroll. Wow. Consider me unenlightened that I don't consider him to be a worthwhile candidate. |
| 28. By: ghill34 on 10-03-2010 10:17:12 VikingArthur: No chance you have ever played baseball at a high level to say the manager does not make a significant difference. Go ask the players in the Phillies clubhouse that were with Larry Bowa and then Charlie Manuel. They will tell you Charlie has made a world of difference. Now let's be realistic. The chance a great manager takes the 2011 Mariners to the playoffs is slim to none. However, in 2011 a great manager, along with his coaching staff (who mind you he needs to get along with as well), will begin to instill a winning attitude, create a presence in the clubhouse, be able to relate to younger players, and develop those younger players into everyday or all-star caliber big league ball players. Not every manager can do that. I absolutely agree with you that Willie Randolph is not a good fit here. I thought he, along with Omar Minaya, mis-managed a very talented Mets team. Clint Hurdle is a great fit here!!! Talk to the players in the Rangers clubhouse, where he is now the hitting coach. They love him!! Not to mention, he has returned Josh Hamilton to his MVP caliber form of 2 years ago and awakened their offense to lead all of MLB in AVG and hits when they ranked 17th and 17th in those categories respectively in 2009. I'm just saying |
| 29. By: ghill34 on 10-03-2010 10:27:20 One more thing of note. Most good managers in the big leagues don't just sit back and dictate to their coaches and allow their coaches to do all the instruction. If a manager has a strong point, he will teach it. To use the Phillies one more time as an example. Charlie Manuel is a hitting guru. He stands by the batting cage every day during BP talking to hitters about mental approach and the mechanics of hitting. In the dugout, during the game, Charlie can always be seen talking to hitters after, in between and before at bats about hitting. When it comes to pitching and defense, Charlie will rely more on his coaching staff. But, when it comes to hitting both he and his hitting coach are the ones doing all the teaching. |
| 30. By: subterranean on 10-03-2010 11:25:28 Wow, ghill34, if Clint Hurdle is solely responsible for ALL that offensive improvement in one year I suppose every team in baseball will be trying to hire him next year. Suppose what he could do if he had three years with Josh Hamilton! And what exactly is it that qualifies Charlie Manual as a hitting guru? Just curious... |
| 31. By: mauricewilliamsiii on 10-03-2010 11:26:08 It was David Wright, Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes who choked away those Mets teams chances, give credit where credit is due. Also crybaby's Beltran and Reyes whined about Randolph not understanding the latin player, thereby undermining Randolph. I think the only thing Randolph failed to understand is the lack of leadership and laziness that would come from Beltran and Reyes in particular. You should try placing blame where it belongs. |
| 32. By: Jerry on 10-03-2010 11:52:49 Honestly, I think the main issue with the manager choice is what NOT to look for. We don't want an old-school type. The M's are a young club, and player development is going to be the biggest issue going forward. They need someone who will help Saunders, Moore, Smoak, Ackley, and Pineda succeed. The one thing we need to avoid is old-school guys who will play veterans over young guys. It seems to me that the older, more established managers tend to do this way too much. I've heard Tony La Russa mentioned as a potential candidate for the M's. Anyone who saw how he handled Colby Rasmus knows that La Russa is exactly what the M's don't need. Bruce Bochy/Brian Sabean made the same errors with Buster Posey in San Fran. Lou Pinella was notorious for not trusting young players. The M's should steer clear of old-school guys like this, who tend to prescribe to the "young players get managers fired" mantra. Those guys are fine with veteran clubs that are looking to contend immediately. Thats not where the M's are now. If I was conducting the interviews, I would be asking a ton of questions about how candidates would approach young players and put them into a position to succeed. For a team like the M's, in-game strategy, bullpen management, and other minutiae are far less important than developing players. The M's aren't likely to have a season that hinges on a win or two. They need to integrate a lot of youngsters into the club, and build for the future. As long as they avoid picking the wrong guy, I don't think the manager matters all that much. Unfortunately, the wrong candidates are also the ones that tend to have name recognition (guys like Pinella, La Russa, Dusty Baker, etc). Hopefully the M's don't make the wrong decision just to attract some attention and get some headlines. |
| 33. By: Edman on 10-03-2010 11:53:03 I'm not sure who the M's should hire. But, I do think it has to be someone who can work with the kids help them reach their potentials. It doesn't have the be the guy who leads them to the World Series, but it needs to be someone who can communicate, teach and build confidence. And, right now, that guy may be Daren Brown. |
| 34. By: StandinPat on 10-03-2010 12:07:22 Yeah I almost gagged when I saw the Tony LaRussa mention as well. The guy has completely lost his marbles and his handling of Colby Rasmus is exactly the type of managing we need to avoid like the plague. Also saw Dusty Baker mentioned earlier. Ignoring the fact he has a new three year deal and interviewing him would constitute tampering, he would be another old-school, god awful choice for a manager. One things for sure, the M's have a really solid core of young players and need a manager that knows how to nurture and develop that core. |
| 35. By: Jerry on 10-03-2010 12:09:42 Again, I hate to make conclusions about something that none of us really know much about, but Ted Simmons has a resume that suggests he could be a great choice. His experience in player development and as a GM suggest he could see the big picture better than other manager candidates. The M's need someone who will let the kids play, even if they struggle a bit. And his connections with Jack - and experience in the same aspects of baseball as Jack - could result in a good dynamic between the two. But, again, who knows? This is one aspect of baseball where normal fans aren't able to make an educated evaluation. Unless you are in the room during the interview, I don't think any of us really know who would be a good fit. |
| 36. By: ghill34 on 10-03-2010 13:33:44 subterranean: Talk to anyone in and around MLB and they will tell you Charlie Manuel is one of the most well respected, most knowledgeable "professors" of hitting in the game. I am a former minor leaguer that came up through the Phillies system with a lot of the current Phillies in the big leagues and still talk to a few of them. They love him!!! He treats them with respect, but is stern when he needs to be. When you gain a player's respect, they listen. When they don't respect you, they don't listen. This is what the M's need with all the young players that will be on the 2011, 2012 and 2013 sqauds. Also, I never said Clint Hurdle was "solely responsible" for the Rangers improved offensive production, but there is no question he's made a huge difference. mauricewilliamsiii: There is no question the Mets players underperforming had a lot to do with the them failing as a team. But, good managers find a way to get the best out of their players and put them in the best position to succeed, and this is where Willie Randolph failed. Managers need to be flexible and find a way to relate to the personality of the team. Managers fail when they try to conform the players to a "my way or highway" type of thinking. It's a fine line of being stern and a leader, while also keeping the respect of the players. Good managers find a way to this no matter who the players are. |
| 37. By: Lailoken on 10-03-2010 14:55:27 1. Tony Larussa- Managers are overrated but Dave Duncan is not. Larussa may take big money to sign but he would also signal a commitment to winning. 2. Bryan Price- Bud Black has broken the former pitchers to managers barrier. Price is smart enough to run a sound ship. 3. Kirk Gibson- The World Series home run gutsiness earns immediate respect. Handled the awkward transition in Arizona well this season. 4. Manny Acta- May be near impossible to pry him away from the Indians but he's a strategist who loves & understands the game in a manner that exceeds most managers in the game. 5. Bobby Valentine- Brashness is a fit in a Mariners culture that needs a shakeup. Enough of company guys that toe the line. 6. John Farrell- Solid developmental history with the Indians. Has helped Red Sox hurlers excel despite the green monster & intense New England pressure. Has youth factor on his side. |
| 38. By: jumpshot03 on 10-03-2010 15:20:42 Sandberg, Valentine, Cora, Randolph, in that order. I like a kick in the ass manager like Sandberg. Reminds me of when we sucked in the early 90's and brought in Mr. Kick Ass him self Pinella. So lets get the 2.0 version and pick Sandberg. |
| 39. By: ghill34 on 10-03-2010 20:09:16 Managerial jobs definitely open: Toronto Seattle Atlanta Florida NY Mets Chicago Cubs Milwaukee Managerial jobs might be open: NY Yankees Chicago White Sox St. Louis Pittsburgh Looks like Cin is close to resigning Baker. Arizona is close to resigning Gibson and the Dodgers are going with Mattingly. So that's at least 7 jobs open and maybe as many as 11. That's a lot of jobs and I'm not sure there are enough high quality choices. I think Ryne Sandberg will get one of these jobs (Cubs or Blue Jays most likely) and Ozzie Guillen will be in either Chicago (AL) or Florida. It also looks like Fredi Gonzalez will end up in Atlanta. So, that would leave about 5-9 jobs open. |
| 40. By: PositivePaul on 10-03-2010 23:47:48 Dan Rohn, FTW!!!! Love that dude! Unfortunately he'll never set foot within the M's organization again and that bridge is burnt and the ashes buried... I have no problem with Brown, really. He's managed in the M's farm system a long long time and knows a ton of these players. He's good working with the youth. May not have as much 'street cred' with the veterans but beyond Ichiro, Felix, Lopez (if he's kept) and Figgins (if he isn't traded) what veterans are there going to be on the team in 2011? I sure don't think they'll sign but maybe 1-2 of them if that. |
| 41. By: 11records on 10-04-2010 16:27:25 Well, odds are Z will choose someone who was involved in some way with his tenure with Milwaukee. But - what about Grady Little? I'm not kidding. The guy is vilified for one (admittedly poor) decision, but was successful with both the Red Sox and the Dodgers. He was also extremely successful in the minor leagues. |
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