| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 07-30-2011 |
The Seattle Mariners have traded right-handers Doug Fister and David Pauley to the Detroit Tigers in exchange for three players. The return package of left-hander Charlie Furbush, outfielder Casper Wells and third base prospect Francisco Martinez is a solid one, with Wells being the key ingredient but he's a potential big-league ready bat that can play left field.
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Comments
The following 81 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: ripperlv on 07-30-2011 12:08:19 Inactive Link. |
| 2. By: Jason A. Churchill on 07-30-2011 12:10:42 already fixed. |
| 3. By: bilbo on 07-30-2011 12:11:40 Jason, Any thoughts on the PTBNL (who it might be,value)? |
| 4. By: Jason A. Churchill on 07-30-2011 12:14:36 I have heard about 10 names. Not even 100% sure there is a fourth player, but most seem to think there is. It's likely at least a decent player, not just a throw-in. |
| 5. By: shemberry on 07-30-2011 12:15:12 Jason, The headline says we acquired 4 for Fister and Pauley. Does that mean that you have confirmed that there is a PTBNL in the deal? |
| 6. By: baseballman on 07-30-2011 12:15:41 I sure hope there is a 4th player. It seems like the haul we got could be pretty good, but it'd be even better to get more. |
| 7. By: shemberry on 07-30-2011 12:15:55 Sorry, post 4 wasn't up when I started typing. |
| 8. By: SMariners11 on 07-30-2011 12:16:29 realistically, should we even consider that castellanos is in this? |
| 9. By: dewey on 07-30-2011 12:16:45 Does Furbush sound a little like French when they got him? Martinez seems like the key wells projects like a platoon type .Whats your thoughts Jason? |
| 10. By: shemberry on 07-30-2011 12:17:35 Any chance Bedard is dealt today after this? Seems like Furbush could take his spot in the rotation |
| 11. By: baseballman on 07-30-2011 12:17:37 dewey, he just wrote his thoughts... |
| 12. By: Adam B. on 07-30-2011 12:17:54 Tried to subscribe for premium content and Amazon is freaking out. "403 Permission Denied" but Amazon sent me an email saying the purchase was confirmed? |
| 13. By: rjfrik on 07-30-2011 12:18:22 In my opinion the PTBNL has to be a big piece. After researching and reading about some of the players coming back, it leads me to believe that player is significant because the players we received just don't add up to the value we sent out the door. We need to take in to account how much the front office valued Fister, there was absolutely no reason to trade him unless we were getting back a pretty significant piece that would make us trade him. I could very well see Nick C. heading out way. |
| 14. By: baseballman on 07-30-2011 12:25:41 From MLB's official twitter page: "BREAKING: SEA trades SP Doug Fister and RP David Pauley to DET for OF Casper Wells, P Charlie Furbush, 3B Francisco Martinez and PTBN." There is a 4th player, good! |
| 15. By: SMariners11 on 07-30-2011 12:26:34 If it is Castellanos, when could his name be released? |
| 16. By: danviens on 07-30-2011 12:28:42 No way it's Castellanos, that would be absurd. PTBNL is possibly a "very significant name" according to Larry Stone, could it be one of the guys they didn't sign until August 18th last year? That group does include Castellanos, but also Chance Ruffin and Drew Smyly. Ruffin is dominating as a closer in AAA. That's a guy I could get excited about. If we knew we were getting an arm like that it would make it easier to deal League in the next 24 hours. Jason.... any thoughts on the PTBNL? |
| 17. By: rjfrik on 07-30-2011 12:29:42 Not until after mid August when he signed last year. You can't trade a player until one year after his signing date. Thus the reason many people are projecting the PTBNL as a 2010 draft pick. |
| 18. By: rjfrik on 07-30-2011 12:31:17 Anyone one of Castellanos, Ruffin or Smyly would make this a win for the M's IMO. Castellanos Ruffin Smyly In that order. |
| 19. By: SMariners11 on 07-30-2011 12:31:27 Ah ok, knew the rule just didnt know when he signed last year. |
| 20. By: baseballman on 07-30-2011 12:32:13 RE 16: JAC tweeted he heard it could possibly be Fields or Smyly. |
| 21. By: Adam B. on 07-30-2011 12:36:56 Great insight on the pick-ups Jason, any ideas on whether the PTBNL is simply a "toss-in" or as Larry Stone suggested, something more intriguing like a 2010 draftee? |
| 22. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 12:37:33 Who is Fields? |
| 23. By: Adam B. on 07-30-2011 12:37:56 Well, I guess that answers that. |
| 24. By: hardball24 on 07-30-2011 12:43:33 Any guess on whether the M's see Furbush as an SP going forward? |
| 25. By: hardball24 on 07-30-2011 12:53:53 Reports are that the M's must choose the PTBNL by August 20th. Is that before or after players from the 2010 draft class can be picked? |
| 26. By: bcsimons on 07-30-2011 12:58:21 After, hardball. Aug 18th is the signing day. |
| 27. By: Shonn71 on 07-30-2011 13:05:31 Where would you guess Martinez falls among the M's Top 30? |
| 28. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 13:14:27 I'm not Jason, but Martinez is going to slide in around 5th for me - after Walker, Hultzen, Franklin, and Paxton, and before everyone else. He's probably a pretty solid 5th for me, actually |
| 29. By: docsmith on 07-30-2011 13:15:33 Rumours have M's scouting W. Mich, this trade is ok to weak without a significant PTBNL, M's have until Aug 20th to pick the PTBNL, Castellanos signed Aug ~15 last year. This adds up to Castellanos as the PTBNL to me...which would be "significant." |
| 30. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 13:18:22 It's not going to be Castellanos. If it was Castellanos there would no "choice between three prospects", it would just be Castellanos. The M's would take Castellanos without need to extensively scout him. It's going to be a choice between lower caliber but significant prospects. |
| 31. By: rotoenquire on 07-30-2011 13:24:03 You would not get Castellanos and Martinez in a deal... The odds are it will not be a top 10 guy from the Tigers minors.. You already got 2 of there top 10... I am in the hopes it is Gustavo Nunez SS Mid lvl pop and speed with a solid glove. He is in class A advanced right now. OR Jay Voss from Dble-A not flashy but a steady player projects as a 4-5 starter... Martinez and Furbush were main large gets in this deal. Wells is a decent 4th OF. Now your looking at RAW talent with the 4th PTBNM... |
| 32. By: slick on 07-30-2011 13:24:12 Rob Brantly 4th rounder catcher from 2010 draft seems like a guy that could be the ptbnl. |
| 33. By: shemberry on 07-30-2011 13:25:06 I don't think the 3 prospects eliminates Castellanos. He may be who Jack wants, but got a list of 3 names in the event the primary target gets severely injured in the next 3 weeks. |
| 34. By: rjfrik on 07-30-2011 13:40:30 Fields would be pretty awesome but I think the Tiger value him pretty greatly especially regarding his bloodlines. I still think it's one of the three draft picks I mentioned earlier. |
| 35. By: maqman on 07-30-2011 13:43:36 Not a big fan of this so far, I liked Fister and Pauley and they were cheap. However I trust Z and the scouts to do the right thing. I'm guessing since Bedard didn't impress last night Fister was the best trade chip left. It's going to take a good deal of time for this to work out. |
| 36. By: Blowgun7 on 07-30-2011 14:17:47 Bad deal. It was always going to be hard to deal Fister as a centerpiece because he's still not viewed as a legit #3 by most of baseball... as a result, he likely held much more value than he was going to bring back.. |
| 37. By: VikingArthur on 07-30-2011 14:46:14 Everyone knows I am a huge fan of the The Fist and I am sad to see him go... but as much as I am not sure this is the best deal. But we have to trade pitching to get bats and hopefully Wells can be a functional player for us and then one of these other guys develops into something good. |
| 38. By: rocketdawg31 on 07-30-2011 15:04:35 I hate to see The Fist go,too...but I also know that this is likely maximization on a return. For a player with a skill-set already being replaced (by Blake Beavan) and another player (Pauley) who I think was just having an out-of-his-mind year. Weighing in on the PTBNL, I bet that it's OF Daniel Fields. And if so, it's a solid get. He's got bloodlines, a lefty stick that does a little of everything. |
| 39. By: jsmitty on 07-30-2011 15:08:05 PTNL has to be a significant prospect. I think it is has to be Castellanos. For Jack Z to give up Fister and Pauley and not get a significant bat is ridiculous. It has to be Castellanos otherwise this trade has no merit. |
| 40. By: rocketdawg31 on 07-30-2011 15:09:36 I don't think it's Nick Castellanos as the PTBNL...seeing as how Francisco Martinez was put in the deal. But if it were, I'd be seven shades of pure happy and ready to call Jack Z a beautiful, beautiful man. I've coveted Castellanos as a Mariner since his draft. |
| 41. By: baseballfan on 07-30-2011 15:13:13 While the 4th player could change the evaluation of the trade, initially I don't like the trade - Martinez could become a good player but looking at his plate discipline & lack of defense I'm not excited - Furbush may be okay in Safeco but this reminds me of the type of deals Pittsburgh used to make every year - receiving multiple blah prospects for their ML players & those rarely turned out well - I prefer to receive more quality and less quantity even if Seattle had to include a C prospect - The Mets just sent Beltran + 4 mil for 1 prospect but he's an elite prospect - that's my kond of deal. |
| 42. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 15:21:32 Everyone thinking it's Castellanos is setting themselves up for disappointment. There is no way the Tigers sent their top two third base prospects in this deal. If Castellanos was a possibility Martinez would not have been included. |
| 43. By: jsmitty on 07-30-2011 15:34:26 Sorry, off topic. Castillo had a double, triple, and walk today. If he keeps this up he'll be a top 5 prospect in the org. ahead of Peguero and Pimentel. |
| 44. By: rocketdawg31 on 07-30-2011 15:45:09 If it's OF Daniel Fields, I'm a happy man. Likewise RHP Chance Ruffin. I'm not so hot on LHP Drew Smyly. |
| 45. By: rocketdawg31 on 07-30-2011 15:47:36 I know next to nothing about catcher Rob Brantly... but if HE'S the PTBNL, then I could learn to like the deal if another catching prospect with a decent stick comes to us... |
| 46. By: Kryten on 07-30-2011 15:47:58 Statistically, dumping Fister will help our offense a bunch. Great trade. |
| 47. By: mcolman on 07-30-2011 15:58:59 According to MLB Trade Rumors: The player to be named later in this trade is one of the Tigers' top three picks from the 2010 draft, tweets ESPN's Shannon Drayer. That means Nick Castellanos, Chance Ruffin, or Drew Smyly. |
| 48. By: rotoenquire on 07-30-2011 16:01:06 Castellanos or Smyly I like Smyly never have enough solid pitching... I cannot believe the Tigers paid such a high price unreal!!! |
| 49. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 16:01:11 Re 28 - totally brain farted on Campos. Martinez is my new #6. Walker Hultzen Franklin Paxton Campos Martinez Triunfel |
| 50. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 16:10:58 43 - Castillo's been walking a lot more lately which definitely makes him interesting. I can't see him being a top 5 guy this year but he's certainly making a case for top 10. |
| 51. By: Kryten on 07-30-2011 16:16:25 @47, That would mean PTBN is a pitcher, since I can't see them giving up 2x 3Bmen. So if true, we swapped 2 hurlers and added two hitters. Z's approval rating very high with me. |
| 52. By: Marco on 07-30-2011 16:34:42 "Everyone thinking it's Castellanos is setting themselves up for disappointment. There is no way the Tigers sent their top two third base prospects in this deal. If Castellanos was a possibility Martinez would not have been included." Obviously, even if there's a remote chance due to the fact Castellanos can't be traded before August 18. But yet, why pick Martinez now if GMZ had a chance to pick Castellanos one month later ? |
| 53. By: rth1986 on 07-30-2011 17:17:35 Hearing that the Twins are looking to trade Denard Span for a relief pitcher makes me wonder if the Mariners could get in on that deal. The Twins seem to want a legitimate closer (Storen). I would certainly trade League for Span straight up. I'd prefer going forward with Span in CF rather than Gutierrez at this point. Love Span's on-base ability and speed combo. Rare to find these days. |
| 54. By: masonb on 07-30-2011 17:20:19 I don't think picking up Martinez necessarily means that castellanos isn't a part of this deal. Martinez wasn't necessarily locked in to 3B long term. I've read several reports that have mentioned he's a future corner of. I have to think that in order for z to trade the cheap production of Fister, castellanos had to be potentially involved. To say there's no chance is ridiculous |
| 55. By: jsmitty on 07-30-2011 18:18:24 Discussions with the Tigers should've started and stopped with Castellanos. Martinez doesn't have enough pop for 3B and can probably move positions. If the Mets landed Zach Wheeler for a rent-a-player we should've been able to land Castellanos for two guys who will be with the Tigers for the next four to five years. |
| 56. By: Jerry on 07-30-2011 18:51:06 I was initially very skeptical that Castellanos would be included. However, let's look at what is being said: Larry Stone and John Paul Morosi both tweeted that the M's will get a "significant player" to be selected on August 20th, when 2010 draftees will be tradable. Stone tweeted that the M's will get to select from one of the Tigers top 3 picks. Then, Shannon Drayer tweeted: "Source says PTBNL.... is indeed one Detroit's top 3 picks from 2010 draft. Can't be traded until signed for 1 yr" It's important to note that all those sources are good ones. The Tigers first three picks in that draft were Nick Castellanos, Chance Ruffin, and Drew Smyly. So, if Drayer is correct, that means Castellanos is the guy. One possible error in this could be picks/rounds. Both Castellanos and Ruffin were supplemental first rounders. If the tweet was an error and the M's get to pick from 3 players picked in the first 3 ROUNDS, then it would include C Rob Brantley, and Castellanos is not likely an option. Let's hope Drayer is right. If the M's get Castellanos in this deal, it's a huge win for Jack and co. |
| 57. By: Mackie on 07-30-2011 18:53:15 For all we know, maybe negotiations did start around Castellanos. We probably won't know anything for sure about the rest of the logistics of that part of the deal until after the PTBNL comes along. Sorry I have forgotten where I read it, but I also saw something about Martinez possibly being projected as a possible RF more than at 3B. League for Span? I'd be fine with that one too if Minnesota would do it. Span's steals are off a bit this year, but he is guy who seems to be capable of giving the team .750 OPS offense from CF. His OBP is .366. He's proven, and he's still just 27... sure the Twins wouldn't want more than League for him? |
| 58. By: StandinPat on 07-30-2011 18:53:25 So a 20yr old in AA who may or may not stick at 3B is gonna affect whether or not the Ms look to acquire a future 3B? Did any one of the Catchers the Ms drafted this year stop them from drafting the next one? Or moving Littlewood to C? or looking to add more C depth through trades? Right now it's all about acquiring talent, if two of the best talents you can get both currently play the same position, who cares? That in no way means they will both be playing the same position one or two years from now, or that either one of them will be in same organization. Castellanos as the PTBNL may not be likely, but it has zero to do with the presence of Martinez. |
| 59. By: Marco on 07-30-2011 19:09:49 "Castellanos as the PTBNL may not be likely, but it has zero to do with the presence of Martinez." Maybe it has to do with the Tigers organization and the fact that Martinez and Castellanos are their best - if not the sole - third base prospects. I mean, I was just watching the trade from their point of view to realize our chances to land Castellanos |
| 60. By: Marco on 07-30-2011 19:16:11 Besides are we sure GMZ is not interested in Ruffin or Smyly ? |
| 61. By: rocketdawg31 on 07-30-2011 19:20:17 Hey, if Nick Castellanos becomes Mariner property, I'll be as elated as anyone. Promise. And what you say isn't wrong, StandinPat. But when I say "Castellanos just isn't likely to be the guy", it's not just the fact that they gave up Martinez that makes me think that. I just don't see a guy like Dombrowski parting with two third sackers when that's a position of weakness with the big club before too long. Not when Fister is less than an elite talent. But if it is Castellanos, it makes the price tag go from "purty good, maybe even-steven" to "WOW, we committed high noon burglary!". They gave us Casper Wells, a guy who doesn't hit arby til 2013, and free agency until 2016's end. Even if he's no more than a 4th OF, that's value. Furbush has about as much team control. Plus a prospect in Francisco Martinez that was ranked #8 in their system, albeit with the caveat that their system isn't a particularly deep one. If it'd been Ubaldo Jimenez, sure. I can see Castellanos being involved. But as much as I love Doug Fister as a player, he's still just Doug Fister. |
| 62. By: slick on 07-30-2011 19:45:03 Tigers gave Castellanos a big bonus makes no sense to move him a year later if you were going to invest that much into him. Ruffin is probably the ptbnl future 7th or 8th inning guy, who i would take over parry. |
| 63. By: slamcactus on 07-30-2011 19:48:11 You folks are either way overvaluing Fister or way undervaluing the pieces we've gotten in return. If it'd just been Furbush and Martinez I'd thi it a pretty fair deal, and one that I'd be pretty happy ith. The idea that we get those two plus a guy who looks like a potential major league ready, league average of, plus a recent ugh draft pick is just excellent work on the part of this FO. Francisco Martinez is a very exciting prospect. He's holding his own in double-a as a twenty year old, and his current season line is dragged down by a recent slump. Hs offensive ceiling is pretty much up there with any position player in the system, including Pimentel, Castillo, and peguero. Furbush definitely has the potential to start, and he's a perfect fit for safeco. Very happy with this move. |
| 64. By: jgstecker on 07-30-2011 20:12:48 My hunch is That it'll be Ruffin. Seems a little coincidental that he was optioned back to AAA just before this deal went down. If he'd stayed up with Detroit through today, he would've been ineligible to be a PTBNL. |
| 65. By: slick on 07-30-2011 20:46:59 Red Sox pick up Harden for Lars and ptbnl think i would have kept Bedard if that is what would be offered for Bedard. |
| 66. By: rocketdawg31 on 07-30-2011 20:52:48 I wonder if Martinez' presence in AA is goign to move Triunfel to an outfield spot. I'm believing the PTBNL is indeed RHP Chance Ruffin. |
| 67. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 21:31:20 You guys are looking at this all wrong. No one is saying it's not Castellanos because we wouldn't take him and Martinez. It's not Castellanos because it's unlikely the Tigers would deal him for Fister/Pauley, and almost guaranteed they aren't moving him AND Martinez. |
| 68. By: Jerry on 07-30-2011 22:01:08 Why are you guys speculating on who th PTBNL is. It's a list of possible players. Ruffin and Smyly are surely on that list. It's doubtful Castellanos is, but we can at least keep our fingers crossed. Some of you guys seem to think this decision is already made, and they just can't announce it yet. That's not the way this works. |
| 69. By: dawgncarolina on 07-30-2011 22:03:50 Not sure who you're talking to Jerry, but I agree that the decision probably hasn't been made yet. It's certainly possible the M's know who they're taking and just got the other two PTBNL options as insurance in case the first option gets hurt between now and then, but I think that's unlikely. I think they're deciding between three players. Castellanos isn't one of them, though. There's just no way the Tigers are including him in this deal. |
| 70. By: John_S on 07-30-2011 23:22:19 |
| 71. By: John_S on 07-30-2011 23:24:14 Drew Smyly made his AA debut tonight. 7ip 0er 4h 2bb and 8k's. Not bad for a debut. He's also working on 24 scoreless innings A and AA combined. |
| 72. By: rjfrik on 07-31-2011 00:03:13 You guys can't be so definitive in saying Castellanos is not included in the three. Reporters have went on record in saying that the player to be named is one of the Tigers top three picks in 2010, so it very well could be Castellanos. Most likely its one of the pitchers but it could be Nick. |
| 73. By: kath99208 on 07-31-2011 00:45:02 Just to add some perspective and hopefully keep this thread going until we get more news.. 2010 Draft #43 Tijuan Walker (M's) #44 Nick Castellanos (Tigers) #48 Chance Ruffin (Tigers) #67 Marcus Littlewood (M's) #68 Drew Smyly (Tigers) #99 Ryne Stanek (M's, did not sign) #100 Rob Brantly (Tigers) |
| 74. By: Shawnuel on 07-31-2011 00:54:49 Regarding Martinez's prospect ranking with Detroit, I have seen it as high as 4 and as low as 11 (John Sickels). 6-8 is a pretty good median. |
| 75. By: Lamda on 07-31-2011 02:34:09 Z's comments today essentially stated that he has time to evaluate 3 players and make a choice as to who the M's want so it seems far from decided yet. |
| 76. By: aerichner on 07-31-2011 03:54:29 Im with you Slamcactus (and I dont think that often). Also, while there's a chance it's Castellanos, it still seems like a steep price to pay for a 4th/5th starter. You all can say he developed into a #3 but it's still Doug Fister. I enjoyed him. I wont miss him. Good freaking deal by Jack and thats even without knowing the PTBNL. |
| 77. By: docsmith on 07-31-2011 08:10:12 I understand the logic on Castellanos not being included. And I do value Fister and Pauley. They are major leaguers. They have performed at this level and they are under team control. That is value, and heck, Fister has done well against some elite teams. That said, with what little I can drum up, I am happy with this trade (need for need) if the PTBNL list is Brantly, Ruffin, or Smyly. That is a very good list. But I am still going to hold out a little hope that Castellanos is on that list. Of the four, he is the only one that is at Western Michigan, who we were rumored to be scouting. It fits, but, I agree, it is a stretch from the Tiger perspective. |
| 78. By: on 07-31-2011 10:04:12 According to MLB Trade Rumors: The player to be named later in this trade is one of the Tigers' top three picks from the 2010 draft, tweets ESPN's Shannon Drayer. That means Nick Castellanos, Chance Ruffin, or Drew Smyly. |
| 79. By: on 07-31-2011 10:04:27 According to MLB Trade Rumors: The player to be named later in this trade is one of the Tigers' top three picks from the 2010 draft, tweets ESPN's Shannon Drayer. That means Nick Castellanos, Chance Ruffin, or Drew Smyly. |
| 80. By: maqman on 07-31-2011 10:25:21 Nick Castellanos would mean that they give up two 3B prospects and we take two, which would be odd. Ruffin might be major league ready soonest but I think Smyly might have the highest upside of the pitchers. Martinez could end up as the pick of the litter. |
| 81. By: baseballman on 07-31-2011 11:31:41 It's been a long morning, but Ruffin is the closer, correct? If so, I could see us choosing him especially if we trade League today. Closers bring more value than bottom of the rotation starters (which it appears Smyly might be). |
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