Prospect Insider - M's Rumor Mill 2011

M's Rumor Mill 2011

By Jason A. Churchill

By 07-23-2011

UPDATE: July 25 @ 05:11PM PT Notes on other potential matches for M's trade bait, plus League's chances to get dealt and a potential outfield target for the Mariners. Click Here.

UPDATE: July 24 @ 12:14PM PT The M's are requesting specifics in return for their pitchers, and it's all about hitting, catching.

UPDATE: July 23 @ 2:02PM PT Another club linked to M's arms. What can that club offer Seattle?

It's that time of year again and so many possibilities cloud any kind of strong predictions -- it's a mess, as usual -- but the Seattle Mariners are again at the center of a ton of potential deals.

I'll update here on the rumors page with time stamps whenever I hear something or have additional intel on a report by a reliable source such as ESPN's Buster Olney, Jerry Crasnick or Jayson Stark, or the guys from FOXSports.com, who are really good at collecting notes on potential moves.

As we hit the weekend -- a week from the deadline -- there are simply a ton of potential moves with no clear deal ready to be made. Last year we all knew Cliff Lee was getting moved at some point. This year it's feasible, though unlikely, that Seattle Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik stands pat.

Subscribers can check out the latest rumors as well as a reference list of clubs, targets and bait that will also be updated as information becomes available.

To subscribe, click here.

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Comments
The following 39 comment(s) for this article are shown below:

1. By: FWBrodie on 07-23-2011 03:36:37
A certain "possibly on the table" C from the ACC would make a lot of sense to me, and we know the M's are obsessed with the ACC.

2. By: littlelinny6 on 07-23-2011 08:22:48
Do any teams have interest in Saunders? He could possibly sweeten the pot a bit for a team that has interest in our back end starters. It seemed the last few weeks he may have turned the corner a bit in AAA. Jason, have you heard from any scouts confirming this at all? The offensive numbers are so out of whack in the PCL it is hard to tell. Thanks.

3. By: safecochatter on 07-23-2011 08:58:58
Since Bedard didn't play last year,what would his ranking be as far as type a or type b or would there be no compensation at all. And assuming he stays healthy when he does get back,would it be wise for a team to offer arby?

4. By: jgstecker on 07-23-2011 09:54:36
Getting said catcher who can hit a little from the left side would be ideal. How much beyond four years of Fister and two of League would Seattle have to offer?

Does a Figgins-Alfonso Soriano swap make any sense? If the money is even? Soriano can play LF a little and would temporarily satisfy Joe Fan's demand for a Bat. The Cubbies could have a hole at 3B next year and they always need a leadoff guy. Probably a move for the offseason once the M's realize there's not much better options for LF.

5. By: aerichner on 07-23-2011 10:19:21
After this year Figgins has 17 million guaranteed. Soriano? ~60 million. The Cubs picking up that much money to even up the deal seems highly unlikely.

Plus, Soriano seems cooked anyway

6. By: baseballfan on 07-23-2011 10:34:45
What would be a fair return from Toronto for Fister as I like a ground ball pitcher in a hitting friendly park?Also,is it confirmed by Seattle that they've signed 16 y.o Sanchez from Venezuela as I've heard his agent is still considering bids from other teams including the Jays?

7. By: slamcactus on 07-23-2011 12:59:10
"A certain "possibly on the table" C from the ACC would make a lot of sense to me, and we know the M's are obsessed with the ACC."

He'd make a lot of sense to a lot of teams, and I'm pretty skeptical that the Ms have anyone capable of bringing him back in trade unless you're talking Pineda or supplementing the deal with a good prospect of our own.

8. By: FWBrodie on 07-23-2011 17:06:12
@3 Most of the Elias rankings stats are counting stats over the past two seasons, thus Bedard is not a type B or A factor as far as I know.

9. By: rjfrik on 07-23-2011 18:02:33
You guys, where are you reading about this possible deal for the catcher. I'm looking in the rumors page and I don't see it. Is it in this rumor page somewhere?

10. By: dawgncarolina on 07-23-2011 18:22:04
They're reading a lot into it, but I have to admit the guy they're discussing is the name that definitely popped off the page for me, too. I'm with slam that I don't see the M's being able to acquire him.

11. By: FWBrodie on 07-23-2011 19:16:24
Another factor is that the Reds are now 4.5 games back. Few more losses and they'll be done playing "buyer", or at least be putting it on hold.

12. By: davelee99 on 07-23-2011 21:36:29
rjfrik:

I think they're referring to the player who "is off the table, too, unless the M's sweeten the pot and send two players..."

He went to an ACC school.

13. By: davelee99 on 07-23-2011 21:37:45
rjfrik:

I think they're referring to the player who "is off the table, too, unless the M's sweeten the pot and send two players..."

He went to an ACC school.

14. By: davelee99 on 07-23-2011 21:37:56
rjfrik:

I think they're referring to the player who "is off the table, too, unless the M's sweeten the pot and send two players..."

He went to an ACC school.

15. By: Mackie on 07-23-2011 22:09:14
Hey, the Reds just put Scott Rolen on the DL with a shoulder strain. Maybe this would get them a bit more interested in Figgins. I know, I know, this is probably more like Todd Frazier's big chance to impress the Reds at 3B, but if they think they're still in the NL Central race maybe they would like to try a veteran at third. I hope Z is on the phone with Cincinnati trying to work out a way to get Figgins there.

16. By: FelixElRey on 07-23-2011 22:50:42
OT - What's the prevailing opinion about when a prospect has been dominating in AAA, blows in the bigs, but continues to rake when sent back down? I'm torn between "he was nervous and pressing, and has comfort and confidence down in AAA" and "his skills max out against AAA pitching, and he's overmatched in the bigs"

Thoughts?

17. By: aerichner on 07-24-2011 00:35:31
Mackie,

I thought the same thing so I asked that to Jason on twitter the other day and his response was "Maybe. I have to believe there are better options. Better players that still don't cost a ton. Carroll? Uribe? Aviles? Inge?"

Not sure if they've been linked to the Reds like Figgins has been but they're certainly cheaper in terms of $ and most of them more productive than Figgins (except Inge who is AS bad as Figgins)

We'll see what happens in the next few days. Hopefully there's a match there.

18. By: marinerforever on 07-24-2011 11:19:58
I saw over at mlbtraderumores that the whitesox and cardinals were discussing ramus for edwin jackson and thorton if that is really all it is going to take to get rasmus iam sure we can do better than that with a vargas league deal

19. By: aerichner on 07-24-2011 13:39:41
@18, with all due respect, thats not what it said...it said clearly that other than Jackson and Thornton the Cardinals would look to get prospects from the White Sox as well.

"According to Strauss, Edwin Jackson and Matt Thornton are among the players who could interest the Cardinals. The Cards would also be looking for minor league talent from the White Sox, and a third team "may be sought to facilitate a deal."

20. By: VikingArthur on 07-24-2011 14:19:16
@18....

What do we have to offer to even equal Jackson and Thornton? Vargas and League is not equal to the aforementioned package and IMO its not close.

21. By: aerichner on 07-24-2011 14:46:46
@20, in his defense, Thornton and Jackson have been hit hard (.291 and .283 batting average against) and they're also both more expensive than League and Vargas/Fister.

There's just not enough upside there (from us) for them to give up Rasmus unless you throw in Nick Franklin and someone else (not Paxton or Walker)...which I'd obviously. But it's not happening. :/

22. By: marinerforever on 07-24-2011 15:04:06
Are you serious league is far better than thorton not to mention younger and jackson has upside but no control if jackson has so good he wouldn't of been traded so many times in a short period of time he is a number 3.

23. By: dawgncarolina on 07-24-2011 16:18:50
"he is a number 3."

Sure he is. But you're delusional if you think anyone in baseball thinks Vargas is better than that. He's more like a #4.

24. By: Jon O on 07-24-2011 17:10:08
After reading Jason's last rumor update, you would have to think the M's have their sights on that teams top catching prospect (former #4 pick from 2009) who is also another former ACC catcher, and who I assume the M's scouted heavily while scouting Ackley.

25. By: VikingArthur on 07-24-2011 17:41:59
@22

Thornton is the better pitcher than League but I suppose you could debate that League has more value.... perhaps.

Vargas vs Jackson? You cannot be serious. Vargas is NOT a starter in most MLB ballparks. I'd trade Vargas and change for Jackson 10 times out of 10. Don't overvalue Vargas... soft tossing lefties have marginal value to teams who don't play in Safeco. I'd LOVE to watch Jackson start at Safeco 15-17 times a year... he'd throw 7 inning 1-2 run baseball and have a 5-15 record. Ha, Ha.

If I was M's GM I'd be shopping League and Vargas and take whatever I could get back for Vargas and lock up Fister....he has made a serious progression as a pitcher and I think we found Fister's brother from another mother in Beaven.

26. By: Edman on 07-24-2011 18:10:24
What's with the ACC thing? They didn't pick players in the draft just because they're from the ACC. They drafted them because they were good players. Yes, the talent level in the ACC is pretty damn good. But to imply that the M's have some desire for players just because they are from the ACC, probably isn't true.

27. By: Edman on 07-24-2011 18:20:21
For whatever you could get, Viking.....really, even if a team offered horrible prospects in return? Glad you're not the M's GM. I expect value in return, not just accept anything I could get.

Sadly, yet another with the "soft tosser" mentality. Pitchers who get outs are valuable, no matter how hard they throw.

BTW.....Jason Vargas' ERA at home is 3.93.....overall ERA is 3.94. That would suggest that your illusion about Safeco tilting his numbers, might not be entirely accurate.

28. By: BigJoeComp on 07-24-2011 18:40:27
Vargas' FIP and BABIP are both pretty significantly lower at Safeco then on the road. He has a lot less value at hitter friendly ballparks

29. By: rocketdawg31 on 07-24-2011 20:12:28

That veteran catcher (currently on the DL) that's the property of a surprising NL team could be intriguing.

Because he has two team options, for 2012 and 2013. The dollars aren't particularly friendly, but this guy is currently hitting better than just about anyone we have.

He's a NW native, although I don't think that's so much a factor. But, if we DID acquire him and exercised his options..we could buy some time to develop our OWN stud catcher prospect, possibly. And since teams seem to be holding on to any promising backstop like they're made of ingot gold....

(at this time, I hope Florida's Mike Zunino has gotten Zduriencik's attention as a target for the 2012 Draft. I know, I know...best player at slot, regardless of position and I agree. But if the logistics work, I'd love to have Zunino.)

30. By: marinerforever on 07-24-2011 21:34:39
viking arthur

i never said vargas was betteri only said jackson is not as good you are making him out to be and no shot thorton is better i would take league every day of the week and twice on sundays

31. By: AntsInIn on 07-24-2011 21:49:47
Re: Pittsburgh

Is Jones or Doumit really an upgrade of any kind? Jones is purely platoon at this rate and Doumit make Jack Wilson look durable when it comes to injuries. If those are the only guys we can get back I really don't see the point in trading with Pittsburgh.

32. By: VikingArthur on 07-25-2011 12:02:12
@30

I never said Jackson was a Cy Young guy... just better than Vargas.

Edman.. check Vargas's splits from last year. Ha, ha.

All this aside...I am hoping that we make some moves. Without going into book mode, here is how I see where we are as an organization in terms of long term concern/need.

1b- Smoak probably is what he is... a major league average 1b, nothing more, nothing less but he is under control and not expensive.
2b- Nothing needs to be said here...
SS- I think Ryan is a functional player (should be batting 8th or 9th) but very solid, I am comfortable with Ryan at SS for 2012/2013. Great acquisition.
3b- No real hope in sight... move must be made to acquire an above average 3b for the M's to have a functional offense.
LF- Same as 3b except for we have a few guys who MAY be up to it. Halman has been better than I expected. If nothing else he is a good defensive replacement/pinch runner/4th OF.
CF- I have big concerns about Franklin. At the plate his bat has slowed tremendously or he is not seeing the ball at all. If he doesn't show signs of figuring it out the rest of this year count CF as our 3rd black hole position.
RF- Here's to hoping Ichi pulls a Sasaki... Ha, ha.
C- I am happy with Olivo. Is he great? No. But looking around the league he is
better than at least half of the guys. Good signing.

Pitching is good to go... So.... we NEED a 3b and a LF...trade arms to make it happen or make a good signing in the FA market.

33. By: Edman on 07-25-2011 14:17:20
Viking, in case you missed it, baseball has a "what have you done for me lately" mentality. Yes some teams will look at his splits last year, and some who need help may also concluded that this year's numbers are more a sign of development, than of pitching over his head.

We weren't talking about last year. IMHO, you were talking about generalized observations based on personal bias against so-called "soft-tosser" pitching. You didn't go back and look at last year, until you were called on it.

I doubt that anyone disagrees with some of your assessments. I disagree about your Franklin comments, since he's still very young. To get as far as he has at his age says something about his abilities, even with some setbacks this year.

A LF might be available, but it's doubtful. Other teams in contention need an outfielder too. They'll likely pay more than Seattle will. Getting someone to give up a quality thirdbaseman isn't at all likely. They are in short supply.

Other than League, there is little that Seattle has, that can't be had from other no contending teams. And even League is going to have to compete with quality relievers like Heath Bell. The other guys who are available, won't bring much back.

I don't think Seattle is going to make any deal that has fans dancing in the streets. Maybe move a few pieces for interesting prospects, but not anything that can bring immediate help.

34. By: dawgncarolina on 07-25-2011 15:05:02
Ed, I think the Franklin he's referring to is Guti, not Nick

35. By: Edman on 07-25-2011 16:18:31
Yep, I think so too. Thanks dawg.

36. By: rjfrik on 07-25-2011 18:37:42
I just don't see any trades for this years deadline. I think we are asking a lot for League (as we should) and no one is really excited about matching that price. Bedard, IMO, was our big trade chip this year. He was on his way to having a career year before the injury and I think he would of brought back a nice piece for a team overpaying for a top arm for their playoff push. We might trade away a secondary player, like Pauley or Kennedy but it won't net us much in return.

I think we are going to have to bite the bullet on this season and this trade market. We will actually have some funds to have an active winter and that's where I expect us to make our moves, in the winter.

So, I'm looking forward to that and another top 3 draft pick, hopefully this time it's not a pitcher.

37. By: dawgncarolina on 07-25-2011 19:23:12
Phillips Castillo just hit his first career dinger (!), AZL M's up 4-0 on the AZL Angels

38. By: CoachOwens on 07-25-2011 19:51:24
I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they kept League. Not only do they not have anyone who can really fill the closer role, but Leagues, as of the latest Elias ranking, he's a Type A free agent. Obviously it'd be taking a risk to depend on him having another good season next year, but assuming he does (and I don't see why he wouldn't), that will only increase his trade value next year or they could just let him walk in FA and get draft picks.

39. By: slick on 07-26-2011 00:17:42
JAC

What are your thoughts on Casper Well and Dirks in Detroit? they booth have over 700 + OPS in small sample size and large park.

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