| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 12-28-2009 |
Not a lot going on during the holiday stretch, but the M's did re-sign RHP Chad Cordero to a minor league contract and brought in switch-hitting catcher Josh Bard on a minor league deal, too.
No risk on either player, and if Cordero's second year off shoulder surgery is one that allows more velocity, he might help the big-league bullpen.
He sat high 80s for the most part late last summer, but was typically in the low 90s pre-surgery. He did show good control and there was movement on his fastball and a sign that his breaking ball was on its way back.
Bard could serve as insurance in case Rob Johnson's surgeries hinder his work this spring and force the club to leave him behind in Arizona for a few extra weeks, or if rookie Adam Moore proves that he needs a little more time.
Plus, it's a necessity to start spring with at least three capable catchers.
m\'s-sign-a-pair
Comments
The following 19 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: Edman on 12-28-2009 14:18:45 Of the low-risk veteran catchers out there, Bard was my favorite. He can draw a walk and has a bit of power. Cordero was a no-brainer. See if he can still throw. Doesn't cost you a thing to find out. |
| 2. By: Rudolf on 12-28-2009 14:55:11 Jason, I'm looking for some blue sky here. Can you help a brother out? Steven Hensley- is this guy capable of being a TOR starter? I understand he has the velocity, but what else is missing, and is it reasonable to hope he makes the necessary adjustments? Nick Franklin-- he's listed at 6'1", 180 lbs... if he grows an inch or so, puts on twenty to thirty pounds, could he possibly be a 25 homer threat? Would the bulk kill his range and move him off SS? How do you project Julio Morban? Who would he compare to? Can he stick in center field? Just a few questions to fill the empty spaces. Thanks! |
| 3. By: FatBat on 12-28-2009 14:59:59 I prefer it to giving Torrealba 2 or 3 mil. Luts keep that money for a bat. Cordero, if he can get the velocity up a bit and stay healthy....(if?) the bullpen could look realy good this year. |
| 4. By: Edman on 12-28-2009 15:31:41 The bullpen already looks really good. It could look even better, if Cordero can get back to his old form. It never hurts to have too much competition. |
| 5. By: StandinPat on 12-28-2009 15:37:53 The Bullpen looks good-ish. Aardsma, Lowe and League are the only real locks right now and any one of them could be moved before the season. White, Kelley and Cordero add some depth, and if one or two of them bounces back to full health, that pen could be ridiculous. |
| 6. By: 200tang on 12-28-2009 15:44:48 I think Kelley is a lock too. |
| 7. By: StandinPat on 12-28-2009 16:47:37 Kelley struggled after coming back from his oblique injury, but SHOULD be healthy to start the year. If he is, then yeah he's a lock too. |
| 8. By: DMac33 on 12-28-2009 16:48:00 Sorry for the length of this - but I really do think that this is an exciting time to be a Mariners fan. Always a fan of deals that cost you little and could provide valuable, valuable upside. I don't expect Cordero to ever get back to what he once was. BUT, if he DID, well, that's just a power arm back down in the pen that helps turn things lights out. Obviously, things can always change, but look at some of what the M's have down in the pen right now: Aardsma was very, very good last year. He's shown the ability in the past. Consistency had been an issue in the past - so was some undefined roles. He's got all the tools to replicate this success again. League is a guy that has a very, very high ground ball rate. Great guy to have down there for those high pressure situations where you have a runner on 1st and 2nd with 1 out and you need the ground ball. He's definitely got some electric stuff and is the kind of guy that could definitely be aided playing for this team and this kind of defense behind him. Mark Lowe clearly has some tremendous stuff to work with. Fields will be well served being given a non-vital role as he adjusts to the bigs. He has future closer potential written all over him. The faster the learning curve, the deeper the pen becomes. Throw in a guy like Cordero if he's healthy (again, I doubt it - but if he is ...). Now throw in White and Kelley ... WOW. Now you've got some depth from which to work trades come the deadline in exchange perhaps for a bat. You can extract some tremendous value here. And, when you look at it like that, makes you realize why guys like Aumont and Morrow were considered slightly expendable. As I've talked about before, I think it's very important to keep the eye on the prize here. Ultimately, the goal is how to win a World Series. In the AL, it is crystal clear that to do that you are going to have to be able to defeat the Yankees and Red Sox in order to do that. That's almost a given. One is going to win the East. Another is going to win the Wild Card. The Mariners don't have a lot of control over that. Nor does any other team in the AL really. The depth that each of those 2 teams have in their rotation and the quality of depth up and down their lineup gives them far, far too many opportunities to overcome critical issues. Middle of the order bat doesn't produce or get injured, no big deal to these teams - they've got the depth to overcome it. Most teams in the AL ... not really. So in that sense, the Mariners need to conduct business during the regular season solely in understanding what the Angels, A's, and Rangers are doing. Nobody else matters. What the Mariners need to do AFTER making sure that they get to October is figure out how in the world you beat the Yankees and Red Sox. Clearly, we're not spending with them. Not saying that we are poor. But the Yanks are going to spend around $200 million ... the Red Sox around $160+ million most years. The Mariners at best are going to be in the $100-$120 million range as time goes on. We're not going to be able to spend with them position by position up and down the roster. We're going to have to out-think them and we're going to have to evaluate what $$$ are more critical than not. And that definitely appears what Jackie Z is doing here. The ONLY way that any team competes with the Yankees or Red Sox in the postseason is to be able to outpitch them. That's it. Good pitching beats good hitting. Always has and always will. Would you feel more comfortable having Felix as your ace or would you rather have Sabathia or Beckett? I'll take Felix. Would you rather have Lee as your #2 or would you rather have Burnett or Lester/Lackey? I'll take Lee. And that's the sales pitch to these pitchers. If you want to win titles, this is a place where you can win them given the defense that is behind you (a defense that neither Boston or New York has - another area where Jackie Z is differentiating the clubs) and the park (have a chance to get away with some mistakes from time to time). If I'm Jackie Z, I'm not going to spend a boatload of money on my hitters. There's no way that I can spend the kind of money to get the offense that the Yankees or Boston have. And, if I spend with them to create an offense, then I'm not going to have the money leftover to have the kind of pitching necessary to beat them. I have a much better chance of beating them by having equal to superior pitching with a lesser offense than a equal to superior pitching with a lesser pitching staff (see the '95 and '97 Mariners as prime examples of that). I have a feeling that the budget WOULD be increased if this team is in a position to win and win big. When you have the horses in front of your rotation, you ALWAYS have a chance to win and win big. I'd expect the budget to be in the $100-$110 million range over the next few years (and clearly, this will be highly flexible based on local area rights, increased advertising opportunities, etc. for the team in not only the Northwest, but also Western Canada and the Pacific Rim). If I'm Jackie Z, this is how I'm looking at filling out my roster - assuming that I can get away with these kind of salaries: Starting Pitching: Approx. $50 million I expect Felix and Lee to command around $35-$40 million per year going forward. I'm keeping my 4th and 5th starters for younger guys in the system that are under club control and operating at low salaries ($2-$5 million combined at most ... including arbitration). The team will still need a dependable 3rd starter and someone that can matchup in the playoffs (somewhere in the $5-$8 million range). Bullpen: Approx. $8-$12 million This should allow for a closer (I ultimately expect Fields to inherit this role when Aardsma becomes too costly - I don't see us spending $10+ million per year per closer in the near future) as well as supporting arms. Ideal if you can develop some of these arms in your system so that you can get them for the league minimum. Position Players - Starters: $40-$50 million Well, when you think of what you have right now, you have 2 sizable contracts in Ichiro and Figgins. Lopez will be gone after this year and replaced with a rookie in Ackley. Wilson is what he is through next year. Potential that he could be replaced with a young player in time. Gutierrez is still going to make small beans for a few years and then will need to be reconsidered as part of the process. Looks like first base may be a revolving door in the interim with the potential that Carp may get a chance there. Unknown situation in LF right now. On the cheap at catcher. Ultimately, the balance of the Jackie Z scouting system will be in play with the position players. For this kind of salary allocation strategy to work, you are going to have to have players from the minors capable of being able to step in and produce. Position Players - Bench: Approx. $3-5 million Really depends on how many bench guys that you carry. But I'd imagine that you are going to carry 3-4 guys here. The Mariner payroll has been at or around the $90-$100 million range for most of this decade. If this franchise wants to compete at the highest level, in my opinion, they really need to look at bumping that payroll up to about $120 million. If they can do that, then in my opinion, they have a very sound chance to be able to not only compete for, and win, the division for the next few years while Anaheim rebuilds, but could also put themselves in a position to be able to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox in October. |
| 9. By: Edman on 12-28-2009 17:29:02 I disagree. Yes, ulitmately, it's about winning the World Series. Realistically, the goals for the 2010 team are: 1. Get to the playoffs. That likely means winning the division, as Boston and Tampa Bay will probably be battling it out for the wild card (who's going to stop the Yankees, other then the injury bug?). 2. While in the process of winning, establish a foundation going forward. Unlike the Bavasi regime, Jack has made it clear that he intends not to mortgage the future while building this team. Further, while some of you are seeing a future that has Ackley at secondbase, until he proves he can play there.....he can't. We know he has the tools to play centerfield. But, even if he transitions to second, it will realistically take him more than one year in the minors to be an average defender at that position. So, don't conclude that Lopez will be gone. Ultimately, it may or may not be Ackley at second. But, it could also be Truinfel (sp?). There is nothing set in stone right now. Carp is not, at this moment, anywhere near being anymore than a part-time firstbaseman. Raben, Poythress and Dunnigan will battle it out in the minors for a couple of years. Until one emerges, I suspect it will be a series of one year contracts. Firstbasemen aren't exactly the hardest position to fill. I doubt that they're going to get a payroll jump of $20 million, until they win the division. I don't see it happening this year. I do thing Jack would get some payroll flexability if the right player was available. But, they aren't going to simply hand him the extra money. |
| 10. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-28-2009 17:29:21 I'm actually just a few hours from having a projected roster grid with committed salaries to enhance your comment, Dmac. Re: Rudolf Steven Hensley- is this guy capable of being a TOR starter? I understand he has the velocity, but what else is missing, and is it reasonable to hope he makes the necessary adjustments? No. I think he's a No. 4 or a Shawn Kelley-level relief option. Nick Franklin -- he's listed at 6'1", 180 lbs... if he grows an inch or so, puts on twenty to thirty pounds, could he possibly be a 25 homer threat? Would the bulk kill his range and move him off SS? Sure, I guess he could. But that doesn't happen much. If he was already 6-3, you could probably bet on 20-25 pounds being added by the time he's 22 or so, but Franklin's built like a middle infielder and any power he develops will be in terms of strength, not weight -- for bat speed purposes it's in the wrists, hands and forearms. Remember, Barry Bonds, pre-roids, was 185-190 pounds and hitting 25-30 per. I don't see any of the power coming to those levels, no, but I'm not exactly stepping out on a limb with that. But if he gets on base and reaches average power levels, that's big for a legit middle infield defender. How do you project Julio Morban? Who would he compare to? Can he stick in center field? I'm actually a big Morban fan, which you'll read about in depth in the handbook, but I love his swing, and his bat speed showed as above-average. He'll have to build up better K/BB rates, but he takes pitches and runs well. I didn't see him defensively, neither video or in person, because he was injured and only DH'd last summer. The consensus is that he has the physical tools to stick in center. As for a comp, it's too soon to put that on him. Athletically, he reminds me a little of Adam Jones, with a little more bounce. |
| 11. By: Rudolf on 12-28-2009 19:04:47 Right on. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It would be great to read an article someday on the top five pitching prospects in the M's system and what we could expect from them. I imagine they would be PIneda, Robles, Cleto, Cortes, and Hill or Hensley. Who else is in the running? Our minor league pitching looks super thin. Anyway, I'm loving our bullpen depth. Aardsma, Lowe, League, Kelly, White, Vargas and Olson... with Fields, Hill, Orta and Varvaro on the farm. |
| 12. By: Rudolf on 12-28-2009 19:05:54 Do you think we'll see Morban in Clinton this year? |
| 13. By: DMac33 on 12-29-2009 00:01:13 Edman: I'd point out that if you notice what I was writing, I wasn't talking about just 2010. I firmly expect that any AL team that is trying to overtake the Yankees and Red Sox in October has to do so on the mound and has to be able to have top level starting pitching to balance out what they will pitch against you - which also will be top level. Clearly, any team outside of the Yankees and Red Sox are going to need to have significant help from their minor league system. I'd also highly disagree with your comments regarding Ackley. We know he's going to play and play within the next 1-2 years. While we don't know for sure that he's going to be able to play 2B at the Major League level, you do have to expect that the move to 2B wasn't made without a thought and there has to be an expectation that he'll be able to handle the position. |
| 14. By: Edman on 12-29-2009 01:34:45 DMac, I suggest you read Jack's comments. They did not move Ackley to secondbase. They are going to evaluate Ackley at second in Spring Training. That does not constitute a position change. It means they're going to observe him and determine possibility that he'll be able to play second in the major leagues. I stand by my statement. He's an outfielder-firstbaseman, until he isn't. Jack certainly isn't penciling him in at second. And I'd expect that if he does move to second, he's going to take over a year of playing the position in the minors before he'll be ready. It's a huge change of position. It's not like he's moving from SS or 3B. The expectation that he'd be able to play second as a Mariner to start the 2011 season, isn't at all realistic. You may want to paint him as a gifted athlete who can simply be moved to any position on the field. I'm not so willing to believe that. I'm betting after all is said, he ends up in the outfield. |
| 15. By: 200tang on 12-29-2009 02:59:50 I don't think anybody is thinking about playing him at 1B. That would be an absolute waste. I know what you're getting at, but let's just stick with calling him an OF right now :) |
| 16. By: Edman on 12-29-2009 04:23:51 Agreed. |
| 17. By: DMac33 on 12-29-2009 11:44:12 Edman: I don't need to re-read Jackie Z's comments. His comments are only going to give you what he wants you to hear. He's not going to tell you everything publicly ... how does he benefit from that? When I look at public figures, I pay much more attention to what their actions are and the things that they don't say versus the things that they say. I wouldn't dispute that all Jackie Z has said is that they plan on evaluating him at 2B in Spring Training. Tell me why he's say anything more than that? What benefit would he get if he says that the intention is that Ackley is targeted to be the 2B of the future and that is the reason for the positional move? You put Jose Lopez in a bad spot because he's pretty much told that he's not in the future plans (whether that is transparent or not is another story). You put undue pressure on Ackley in the sense that if he somehow proves to not be adequate at the position, there is already a negative stigma surrounding him. There isn't a tangible benefit to coming out and saying it. But what is Jackie Z saying here? My best guess is that he's saying the following: 1) Ackley provides the largest benefit to the team offensively by playing 2B (remember, with Ichiro taking up a traditional power position, the Mariners will need to make up for that through another position that is not traditionally a power position) ... and, considering that the thought process behind Ackley is that he's a poor man's Chase Utley with the stick, that projects much better to being an above average bat at 2B compared to his peers than it does at either 1B or the OF. 2) Jackie Z and his scouting department feel that Ackley has the athletic ability to be able to play second base and play it adequately. I do not think that they'd be tinkering with a positional change for such a highly touted kid if a) they didn't think he could pull it off and b) perhaps more importantly, if the kid didn't think he could handle it or pull it off. 3) As previously aluded to, Lopez at best has value to the team through 2011. That gives Ackley 1-2 years to get both his glove and bat major league ready to be able to step in and play the position. 1B may or may not be blocked depending on the progress of Carp and others in the organization. CF is currently blocked with Gutierrez. LF may or may not be blocked as Bradley can definitely be moved to DH. But it's fairly clear to me that 2B offers the greatest positional need after considering what is in the minor league system at the position and in terms of offering the clearest ride to the majors. And I'm sorry, I'm not going to buy that learning to play second base takes as long as you suggest - particularly for somebody that has played in the infield in the past. I don't think anybody is expecting him to come to the majors and play at a Gold Glove level immediately. How hard would it be for him to play at a level comparable to what Lopez provides right now? Is that possible after a spring training, full minor league season, and perhaps some instructional time during the fall plus another spring training? That's a lot of work available to gather the skills required. Of all the infield positions, I would consider 2B to be one of the easier ones to pick up as a 2B can play deeper due to the shorter throw to first. The biggest challenges are turning the double play (can pick that up rather quickly through constant repetition) and the in between balls looped into the OF. I've seen a number of brual 2B play at the major league level ... I have a hard time believing that Ackley is going to be brual with the glove after a year-plus of seasoning. As a point of reference in the matter, my youngest brother is a catcher at the Division-1 level in college. I've seen him from time to time in the past come out from behind the plate and play SS at a level that in many ways comparable or better than some of the peer SS in the area (and as a FYI, I do live in a very talent rich area for youth baseball). The transition from C out to the field would seem to be very, very challenging to me. What Craig Biggio did moving from C to 2B to CF is much, much more challenging than what Ackley is being asked to do being a lifelong OF who has played 1B in college being asked to slide over to play 2B. I'm not saying that there isn't an adjustment period. But to suggest that it will take years to be ready to play that at the major league level ... I'm sorry - that's most likely highly inaccurate. |
| 18. By: Edman on 12-29-2009 12:20:44 Just curious. Why don't they move more outfielders and corner infielders to secondbase? I mean, you've got a good outfield prospect, just transition him to second so you maximize his value. You want to believe that Ackley is destine to be a secondbaseman, fine by me. I know there is a lot more to that position. Typically, it's shortstops with a long career at that position that move to second. There's a reason. You try to break it down into it's simplest forms. You only hit on the typical fans view of the position. Secondbase is an instinct position. It takes a lot of experience as a middle infielder to develop them. Knowing how to lean on a specific pitch in a specific location. Not to mention learning to throw across your body at a completely different arm angle and release. It's a far more challenging position. I doubt that Jack is going to go with any experiment with a top draft choice, unless he has above average skills. Jack is not going to accept living with Ackley at second if he can't field the position well. For all the Lopez whinning, he's at least a league average defender. It might take several years for Ankley to get to where Lopez is now. If you're trying to equate Ackley's work at firstbase as some kind of evidence that he's got middle infielder ability, I'm not convinced. There is a huge difference between playing first and playing secondbase. I hope Ackley can transition to secondbase quickley. But, I doubt Jack is going to throw away two years of developmental time that divides his concentration on being what he was drafted for, his bat. Ackley has a good chance of seeing time in LF in late 2010, with a bigger role in 2011 and beyond. That, IMO, is the biggest concern Jack has......how to get his bat to the majors as quick as possible. |
| 19. By: DMac33 on 12-29-2009 15:11:33 I'm not discrediting 2nd base as a position. Not everybody can play the position. But I'm also not going to sit here and suggest that it's as difficult of a position to play as SS or 3B. Arm strength is less critical at 2B than it is at SS and 3B. Your arm strength is tested at 2B on turning the double play and on throws across the body up the middle. With the latter example, that's an above average play by a 2nd baseman. But on both examples, these are items that can be worked on repeatedly through fielding drills. I think quickness is a tremendous asset at 2B. It's why, as using your example, corner OFs generally don't play 2B. Those generally aren't "quickness" positions. By all accounts, Ackley has at minimum above average agility. However, keep in mind that one of the benefits of playing 2B is that in particular with nobody on base, a 2B can play a little deeper. Yes, there are clearly a number of instinct examples that a 2B needs. Being able to anticipate based on pitch/count selection (although that really is a skill needed by every fielder and not unique to 2nd base), stealing situations, etc. My point being simply that I don't expect that they are going to put him through reps by chance. There has to be a belief that he's going to be able to play the position at an acceptable level. There is no guarantee that Ackley's bat will be major league ready at any point in 2010. The transition to the wood bat does take time. There are a number of examples of talented college hitters that are/were considered can't miss kids that have struggled with the transition. There is no telling whether or not Ackley will. I'd suggest that the anticipated timeline would be sometime in the 2011 season. I also do not anticipate that they will bring him to the bigs until he's ready to play everyday - it'd be a disservice to him and his development to bring him up to be a role player and not have earned his position and playing time. |
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