| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 12-10-2008 |
Seattle Mariners closer J.J. Putz could be traded within the next several hours - "anytime now" - say the New York Mets.The rumor has it that the M's, Mets and Cleveland Indians could complete a three-way trade as early as Wednesday night that includes Putz, second baseman Luis Valbuena, Tribe outfielder Franklin Gutierrez and a trio of Mets, including Mike Carp, Aaron Heilman and Endy Chavez.
It's unclear which players would land where, other than Putz to the Mets and Gutierrez to Seattle. The M's and Tribe would probably split the remaining players in some manner.
Carp, a left-handed hitting, right-handed throwing first baseman, is 22 having just completed a solid season at Double-A Binghamton where he hit .299/.403/.471 in a tough place for hitters - the Eastern League.
He's not a future star, but would become the top first base prospect in the M's organization and is probably about a year or so away.
Chavez is a nice stop-gap in center, or a fourth outfielder, and Heilman has the stuff to be a useful reliever.
While it's unclear which of that trio would head to Seattle - if the rumors are correct - Gutierrez would serve as the prize of the trade for the M's.
Like Matt Joyce, who was just sent to Tampa Bay for Edwin Jackson, Gutierrez is a plus defender, perhaps one of the top few in baseball, and possesses medium power.
If the M's ended up with Gutierrez and Carp, or more, from Putz and Valbuena, it's probably a solid trade.
Paul Marsh noted this evening that Gutierrez may be the backup plan to Marlins' outfielder Jeremy Hermida, but why not go get both?
The rumor for Hermida - Johnson, Lopez plus another player for Hermida and perhaps a minor leaguer, shouldn't be off the table since none of those names, or Florida's preference of Adam Moore, are reportedly involved in the deal with the Mets and Indians.
Although, the Fish could covet Valbuena, too.
If the deal is completed, I'll go more in depth on the young talent, as I have calls and emails to make to get some information.
putz-could-be-dealt-soon
Comments
The following 68 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: baseball on 12-10-2008 21:39:04 This is a stupid trade. If Gutierrez were that good, the Indians wouldn't give him up for a bunch of nobodies. |
| 2. By: Adam T on 12-10-2008 21:45:21 It looks like Valbuena could be gone in the deal, so moving Lopez to Florida (something I've been thinking of for a while now) would be more difficult. |
| 3. By: huhwhat on 12-10-2008 21:49:07 Personally if the M's get Carp, Gutierrez, Heilman, Chavez and more prospects from the Indians by only losing Putz,Reed, Valbuena and Green I would say it's a great trade for the M's. |
| 4. By: jakehamlin33 on 12-10-2008 21:54:07 i agree, when u are desperate for outfielders and 1B prospects to get both a young outfielder and a 1B prospect in this trade makes it a good trade. Throw in getting two other pieces to fill in your major league roster for this year with Heilman and Chavez and it makes it a really good trade. |
| 5. By: Blowgun7 on 12-10-2008 21:54:25 Im gonna trust Zduriencek. He must like Gutierrez and Carp, and must see something in Heilman he likes as a potential closer or starter. I dont like giving up both Green and Valbuena, but I'll live |
| 6. By: baseball on 12-10-2008 21:57:34 To me this is how the trade works out: -Putz for Gutierrez -Reed and Green for Heilman and Chavez -Valbuena for Carp I don't know about you guys, but I think we need to get more for Putz. Unless you value Carp much more than Valbuena, then that's extra value towards Putz. Still don't like that trade that much unless Gutierrez can hit for some more average. He's a back order of the lineup type of guy from what I'm seeing. Granted he is young and has time to improve, but I don't think he'll be anything more than an regular player. |
| 7. By: Snave on 12-10-2008 21:58:57 I agree with Huhwhat. Carp is a very decent minor leaguer. He could end up being useful at 1B, LF or DH and might end up being the "sleeper" here. Of all the players the M's would get, I think he might end up eventually being the best. Gutierrez didn't hit as well in 08 as he did before that for the Indians, but he did hit well in the minors. He is supposed to be a good fielder, and maybe he will find his stroke with Seattle. Heilman was pretty decent the three years before 08, maybe he will be a serviceable reliever. Chavez seems like a stopgap guy for the OF; he is a LH hitter, I believe. Might he be usable in a platoon in LF? Not too inspiring, but oh well. I think how well this deal turns out could also hinge on what kind of minor-leaguers the Mariners get in addition to these four other players. |
| 8. By: baseball on 12-10-2008 22:16:59 Dang, it got done. I had high hopes for big Z too. |
| 9. By: littlelinny6 on 12-10-2008 22:21:16 Rosenthal reports its a done deal. UPDATED 11:12 p.m. — Done deal: Mets acquire Putz The Mets have acquired a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man is another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz is headed New York in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Under terms of the deal, the Mets get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle. From the Mets' perspective, the deal is Heilman and Smith for Putz. Chavez and Reed are simply an exchange of backup outfielders, Smith and Green are an exchange of right-handed groundball specialists. Jason, How do you view this?? It is hard to tell who we are getting but at least 2 more minor leaguers that are not named. Seems like a pretty good haul. For the longest time I have believe closers were overrated and really most pitchers can hold a 3 run lead for one inning, but it doesn't make them great (see George Sherril). |
| 10. By: malcontent1 on 12-10-2008 22:22:28 Am I missing the part where Green gets thrown into the equation? Nothing I have seen has included Green, and suddenly he gets thrown in in these comments. Also, I don't think the M's get everybody from the Mets and the Indians, I would guess that Chavez and either Heilman or Carp end up in Cleveland. If the Mariners do throw in Reed and Valbuena for the Tribe, then maybe the Mariners do get Heilman AND Carp. But I really don't see how or why they'd end up with Chavez too, unless Zduriencik wants an impossibly good outfield defense? |
| 11. By: malcontent1 on 12-10-2008 22:24:36 please ignore my previous comment |
| 12. By: Slurve on 12-10-2008 22:26:02 we get OF Gutierrez, RHRP Heilman, 1B Carp, OF Chavez, Indians minor leaguers. Wonder who the Minor leaguers might be they could change the opinion of the deal within seconds. |
| 13. By: baseball on 12-10-2008 22:27:11 Slurve...the Indians aren't going to give up much more...most likely lower level prospects |
| 14. By: Blowgun7 on 12-10-2008 22:32:54 The Tribe didnt get much in the trade, so dont expect the minor leaguers to be even remotely interesting. I think Jason will like the trade. He said it was a solid exchange when it was Gutierrez and Carp for Putz and Valbuena. I think Heilman, if he can get back to his pre08 seasons (which have been attributed largely to hating NY his last yr) is a better reliever than Green. Overall, I dont love it, but I dont hate it. |
| 15. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-10-2008 22:34:36 I have to wait to find out which minor leaguers are coming from Cleveland. So far, I'm lukewarm on the deal, but I certainly don't dislike it. |
| 16. By: littlelinny6 on 12-10-2008 22:39:02 Ryan Divish at Tacoma News Tribune reports they are meeting with Zdurenciek at 9:30 PM. This should give a better indication of who these other minor leaguers are. |
| 17. By: Slurve on 12-10-2008 22:48:56 My heart has been thunderstruck... =( |
| 18. By: littlelinny6 on 12-10-2008 22:51:54 Baker reporting the M's get 3 minor leaguers from the Indians. http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/index.html#35202 |
| 19. By: Lime Drive on 12-10-2008 22:52:52 It's the most wonderful time of the year! Seriously, I like the idea of adding A whole lot of defense to our outfield. We just shaved a half run off our team ERA. Now maybe Bedard's 100 pitches will get him into the 7th! |
| 20. By: John_S on 12-10-2008 22:54:54 Jason, do you think that Heilman is capable of closing games? How is Carp defensively? If you were the M's would you do Moore, Lopez + prospect for Hermida? |
| 21. By: jgstecker on 12-10-2008 22:54:55 I'm not super excited about it. Gutierrez is interesting, but not a surefire regular. He was losing ABs to Ben Francisco quite a lot last year. And he creates an hefty logjam in the OF starting about September. I like Carp some, but he strikes me as another one of those guys that you love to see hitting 6th. We've got a few too many of those already. Maybe he evolves into a true MOTO bat, but its not a good bet. Heilman could cause us some true grief if he ends up forcing Morrow into the closer's role. Its Bavasi redux and Z's honeymoon is over. And isn't Endy Chavez an expensive version of Jeremy Reed? I won't miss him though, nor Green. Corcoran out-Greened Green last year. Maybe "minor leaguers" will make this feel better to me. Z will speak to the press soon. |
| 22. By: Blowgun7 on 12-10-2008 22:55:04 Even if these guys dont work out.. I at least like the mindset Jack has. Stressing outfield defense (Gutierrez) and lefty power hitters with OBP skills (Carp) |
| 23. By: ernier on 12-10-2008 22:59:43 Geoff Baker says the minor league guys are from the Mets and they are right handed pitcher Maikel Cleto, outfielder Ezequiel Carrera and left handed pitcher Jason Vargas. |
| 24. By: malcontent1 on 12-10-2008 23:00:54 I think it might be worth noting that the last 2 months of 2008, Franklin Gutierrez hit much better, improving his strikeout rate and walk rate. Plus, he will assumedly be a starting outfielder next year, and may benefit from continous playing time. |
| 25. By: littlelinny6 on 12-10-2008 23:05:44 thank you malcontent1. other than Churchill everyone wants to burn big Z at the stake for this one. |
| 26. By: malcontent1 on 12-10-2008 23:14:58 I forgot to post the line for those last 2 months: .313/.377/.476 with 12 doubles and 4 homeruns in 166 PA |
| 27. By: Slurve on 12-10-2008 23:17:23 Guti is a break out candidate and plays other world D'. |
| 28. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-10-2008 23:23:02 I'm still lukewarm, but I need to find out more about the other three MILB'ers first. Wake up in the morning and read all about it. |
| 29. By: Blowgun7 on 12-10-2008 23:23:49 People need to stop complaining. If you hate Z for making this trade, then you are too ignorant to understand that defense is an important part of baseball, and that preventing runs counts for something. Gutierrez is an elite defensive outfielder and hits well enough to be a cheap league average player. Heilman is better than Green. The only part of this deal I dont like is Valbuena going to Cleveland. But apparently Z likes the combo of Lopez/Carp moreso than Valbuena |
| 30. By: Slurve on 12-10-2008 23:24:59 I don't hate GMZ for this trade I'm just gonna miss J.J. he was one of my favorite M's. |
| 31. By: huhwhat on 12-10-2008 23:59:43 Wondering if anyone knows more about the supposed 3 prospects the M's also got, I've read Cleto is 19 and throws 94-97, Carrera is something like Juan Pierre with more power and nothing on Vargas. |
| 32. By: rocketdawg31 on 12-10-2008 23:59:55 Just to let you guys know, somebody is reporting on newyorkmets.com that the METS are the ones giving the M's four-minor leaguers, 1B Mike Carp being one. The other names that they're saying are LHP Jason Vargas, RHP Maikel Cleto, and OF Ezekiel Carrera. I know nothing about Cleto and Carrera, I'm dimly remembering the name Vargas from the New Orleans Zephyrs- he's a six-foot lefty that has a 6-8 MLB record, 127 IP so far, didn't pitch in the bigs at all in 2008. I am also hearing a conflicting report that it's the Indians giving up minor-leaguers so I'm looking right now for more substantiated info on who, what and where....but this is the best I've got right now. |
| 33. By: huhwhat on 12-11-2008 00:10:44 Mariners website along with Baker are reporting the M's are getting Aaron Heilman, Endy Chavez, Mike Carp, Maikel Cleto, Ezequiel Carrera, Jason Vargas and Franklin Gutierrez. Also ESPN reports the similar except they were not mentioning Vargas. |
| 34. By: huhwhat on 12-11-2008 00:18:46 So i just got an official breaking news email from the Mariners stating they have acquired the names listed above. |
| 35. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 00:19:33 What kind of trade is this for the Mariners? It's horrible! We get Franklin Guitierrez, who hit .258 last year with 8 homeruns and 41 RBI in 399 at bats. We get Aaron Heilman, who had a 5.18 ERA last year. He is 30 years old and when the Mets didn't allow him to be a starter, he threw a fit and caused problems. We also get Endy Chavez, who is a career backup. We get 3 "b" list minor league prospects. We gave up JJ Putz, Shawn Green, Luis Valbeuno AND Jeremy Reed for this? This is absolutely ridiculous. I have been a lifelong Mariners fan and this trade just hurts me. I know that we have to rebuild, but I believe we could have got A LOT more for Putz, Green and Reed. This trade disgusts me. Nice start Jackie Z! |
| 36. By: huhwhat on 12-11-2008 00:25:58 Reed sucks, at least in my opinion and really Chavez and Gutierrez make his loss insignificant, Sean Green was good, but as we've seen time and time again with the M's in recent years they can throw a pen together. Putz was probably not going to do much for this team next year, the final year of his contract outside of his option for $9.6 million. Also after how the M's got bent over in their trades the last couple of years, I have no issue with this one. |
| 37. By: Blowgun7 on 12-11-2008 00:34:22 You are right Hammy22. We got killed if we are judging players on batting average and one season's worth of ERA figures. Heilman was a very good reliever prior to 2008. Last yr the pressure of NY finally got to him. I would expect a strong bounce back. His stuff is alot better than Green's, as is his track record. Why are you whining about Reed. He stinks. Valbuena, I didnt like his addition to the trade, but are you really going to go irate because Luis Valbuena was dealt? Was this a great trade? No. Was it a bad trade. No way. Lets see what happens. We aquired 7 players to build depth in our depleted system. While adding an elite defensive outfielder, a good relief arm, a OBP lefty 1B/DH who will be in AAA, and some other interesting arms. Vargas apparently looked very good in the AFL, and at worst could be a situational lefty. Mets fans Ive spoken to think he has potential. The 19 yr old Dominican kid apparently throws mid 90s and had decent strikeout figures in A ball last yr. This deal wasnt terrible at all |
| 38. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 00:34:23 How does Reed suck? Have you looked at his numbers? They have gotten progressively better every year! His numbers are MUCH better than Guiterrez's numbers and they are the same age! |
| 39. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 00:35:35 Have you seen Heilman's career stats? He is 10 games below .500 and has a lifetime ERA of 4.12. Yeah, that sure is a lot better and will help us contend in years to come! |
| 40. By: stickball on 12-11-2008 00:39:24 Jason, to change the subject, for the Rule 5 draft tomorrow do you have any update to who the Mariners should pick in the main part of the draft and the minor league part? Thanks. |
| 41. By: rotoenquire on 12-11-2008 00:40:14 I like this deal...Hielman has great + stuff and we get solid defensive guys and Carp is a bopper.....I think this is just part of maybe another deal in the works.....sending one of our starters out in a deal to make room for Hielman and Morrow in the rotation. Washburn, Silva, Bedard one or 2 could be on the way out...also Batista could still close leaving Morrow in the starting rotation....Batista would just be a stop gap and trade bait for later, we still have that kid from the draft unsighned who is a future closer, or maybe if Cordero could be a low cost option... |
| 42. By: rocketdawg31 on 12-11-2008 00:44:04 More news on new Mariner property RHP Maikel Cleto and OF Ezekiel Carerra. Cleto turns 20 May 1 of next year, is a 6'3" 220-lb. Dominican who split time as mostly a starter between Low-A Savannah and High-A St. Lucie in 2008. His rep is that of a hard thrower- he can apparently dial it to 97 when he wants to. His stat line between the two stops isn't that great- 5-12 record, in 140.1 IP he struck out 82, 25 wild pitches and 34 BB. No word on how good his secondary stuff is, but the K's are a little low for a pure A-ball flamethrower. But a build like that and 140 IP at age 20 suggest to me he can develop into an innings-eater, at least. Carrera is interesting- they list him at 5'11" 175, a lefty bat. His line last year at St. Lucie reads .263 with 7 HR, 29 RBI and 28 SB (out of 37 attempts) He's 22 in June, his OBP last year was .344, OPS .737. He whiffed at exactly a 1-out-of-5 rate, 86 in 430 AB. As huhwhat perceptively mentioned, Juan Pierre seems to be the best skill-set comparable, although Pierre never dreamed of hitting seven homers in his life, let alone one season. |
| 43. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 00:44:18 Hammy, Actually, its Sean Green, and Luis Valbuena, but anyways, it might behoove you to take a more objective look at stats. Gutierrez had a down year sure, but his numbers are more a reflection on the fact that he had decreased playing time and a slow start. He finished strong in August and September. Heilman had a down year. It's well documented that he had a poor attitude, so maybe a change of scenery will help. Carp is a useful part to the future and adds depth to a position that was pretty thin in the system last year. Finally, sure it sucks to lose a player of J.J.'s caliber. It certainly is less of a sure thing with someone else closing for the club this next season, but closer's are overrated. It's one inning. A good reliever can become on effective closer (see Sherrill, Fuentes, Borowski, Gregg, etc., etc.) At the beginning of the offseason, Z stated that his goal was to add talent to the organization, and he turned Putz, and replaceable parts in Green and Reed into a large gain in talent. My educated guess is that the market had come down to the Mets, Tigers, and Cardinals. The Tigers just didnt have the talent to get the deal done, apparently the Cardinals didn't seem interested enough (I'm guessing here), so by default the Mets came the most likely destination. I wonder if Putz being brought in to be the setup man had any effect on the return. I just think that it would be better for the whole body of work of this offseason to be judged come spring training at the soonest. Don't put the cart before the horse. Sure it would have been nice to get Fernando Martinez, Daniel Murphy, Jon Niese, Bobby Parnell in the deal but I think there's a difference between a player's true value by GM's and the value that the media places on players. I think the loss of Valbuena is significant but perhaps Z sees Triunfel as the future 2B and thinks Lopez or someone else can hold down the fort until he arrives in 2010 or so. Vargas could be a sleeper. He has the potential to come out of the pen or spot start, and he is still young. |
| 44. By: Wishhiker on 12-11-2008 00:45:30 I was feeling pretty good about the Major league side seeming fairly even (give or take) while improving the clubs defense, seeming to solve 2 problem fielding positions. Losing the depth Valbuena provided hurts a bit but the bench is the last thing I'm worried about with this team. You add in the other 3 previously unknown players from NYM and it looks really good to me. From what I'm seeing the MiL side solidifies this deal very well. Ezequiel Carrera, the LH CF with impressive range/speed that has been aggressively pushed by NYM and put up decent offensive numbers for a CF even with that. I'd like to note that both Carrera and Cleto spent the entire 2008 in the same divisions as Milwaukee affiliates. There's a good chance Jack has seen them both play personally. Vargas and Heilman both look like decent+ possible closers and getting the 2 options in the same move as trading Putz away look really good from where I sit. It seems that a couple more acquisitions could complete the team but I wouldn't be surprised if things changed quite a bit more from here to Spring Training. Or if this was the last major move. If we went in to spring with Vargas, Heilman, Batista, Felix, Washburn, Bedard, Morrow, Silva, RR-S...The rotation starts out Felix, Bedard, Morrow, Washburn, Silva with the others going to the pen/AAA then if (WHEN???) Washburn and Silva get traded before the deadline the team hopefully has good options to replace them already from among the others. I like it a lot. The only guy hard to replace is the closer and that may have already been accomplished. |
| 45. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 00:50:42 3 experts on ESPN just said that the Mets won in this deal. Hands down. Wonderful. |
| 46. By: Blowgun7 on 12-11-2008 00:54:14 The three experts on ESPN analyze trades based on name recognition and mainstream stat lines. |
| 47. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:00:44 Hammy, Are you serious man? Have you looked at Reed's numbers. Let's just judge based on your standard for judging offensive performance: .AVG In 2005 he hit .254, in 2006: .217, in 2007: only 27 at bats, .176, 2008: .269, seems rather up and down to me. I haven't looked at his AAA stats, and maybe that is what you are referring to, but I think if we are gonna compare apples to apples, then we should look at Major League stats alone, and both Chavez and Gutierrez have been better players at the Major League level. As far as judging pitchers solely on wins and losses, that's just plain stupid. That goes for ERA too. Both are dependant on the defense and run support. You can be making all your pitches, the hitter gets lucky and bloops a single into center that should have been caught. That runner comes around to score due to a screamer down the line that would have been gloved if the 3B was positioned correctly, the pitcher is credited with an ER. That run would have never scored if he had a defense behind him....That's just one of many examples why ERA shouldn't be looked at too hard. |
| 48. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 01:03:30 We will see I guess. I just don't see how this trade helps us for our immediate future. Yeah, maybe in 4-5 years our team will be improved, but without Putz or Green in our bullpen and Morrow moving to the rotation, we have to rebuild our bullpen. I just think we could have waited and gotten a better deal. |
| 49. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:04:04 Go over to ussmariner. There Dave did the math. The team is only loosing half a win in this trade, and that's considering the players do not progress any more, and considering that Heilman and Gutierrez had down years this trade should result in a net gain in wins. Hammy, try educating yourself on some sabermetrics, it would allow you to look at the game a lot more objectively. |
| 50. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 01:07:52 Really? You rely on sabermetrics to evaluate a trade? Really? |
| 51. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:09:33 Jason, do you think Zduriencek signs a guy like Isringhausen, Hoffman, or Gagne on a one year deal to replace Putz, or is a closer by committee approach more likely? |
| 52. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:16:03 Hammy, absolutely. It's called objective reasoning. Sure it's not foolproof, but it's much more effective than judging a pitcher based on ERA and wins, and a hitter on .AVG making baseball decisions on a hunch and conventional thought is what got this team in a mess in the first place. |
| 53. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 01:17:26 Haha. Yeah, I am sure Jackie Z looks hard and in-depth at sabermetrics before he executes a trade. |
| 54. By: Blowgun7 on 12-11-2008 01:21:20 53 Um, yea, Im sure he does. That is why he made a trade revolving around a player who plays exceptional defense. If he was just looking at batting average like you are, why would he make the trade? |
| 55. By: baseballman on 12-11-2008 01:22:19 is this hammy guy for real!!?? re 53: no of course not, why would a GM do any sort of in-depth analysis on players before he trades for them... he did exactly what you did, he looked at the players avg. and the pitchers w/l record and era...yep thats all he did, you are a genius...NOT! |
| 56. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 01:23:15 Jeremy Reed was an excellent defensive CF. |
| 57. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 01:24:27 If this Guitierrez guy is so good, why were the Indians willing to trade him so easily? |
| 58. By: marinerseric on 12-11-2008 01:24:32 Actually the question that should be asked is this the first domino to fall? Could we see Beltre, Batista ect gone in trades or releases? Jason your thoughts? |
| 59. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:25:31 unbelievable.....that's all I can say. Hammy, you should stick to espn for your analysis. It would probably be more enlightening |
| 60. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 01:26:00 I am not saying that the GM didn't do in-depth analysis, I am saying that he didn't use this sabermetrics method that Masonb is proclaiming. |
| 61. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:27:08 Hammy, maybe because they have a surplus of outfielders and they saw an opportunity to get a impact middle infielder and useful bullpen part. |
| 62. By: Blowgun7 on 12-11-2008 01:27:19 Jeremy Reed was not an excellent CF. He is a slightly above averave defender at best. Franklin Gutierrez is an exceptional defensive outfielder. Gutierrez is expendable to Cleveland cause they have Sizemore in CF, and a bunch of young talented outfielders, yet they have no quality middle infield prospects, therefore they needed Valbuena more than Gutierrez |
| 63. By: Hammy22 on 12-11-2008 01:27:36 MasonB, are you saying that the guys on the USSMariner know more than Steve Philips and Peter Gammons? Because they both said that the Mets got the best part of this trade. |
| 64. By: baseballman on 12-11-2008 01:27:46 RE 60: you know this how? |
| 65. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:30:28 It's not me proclaiming it. Look to the source, Zduriencek brought his statistical analysis department to assist him in making decisions. Sure he uses traditional scouting methods to make his decisions (that is his background), but take away sabermetrical reasoning and this deal probably doesn't happen |
| 66. By: DAMellen on 12-11-2008 01:32:33 Hammy, Big Z hired a whole staff of sabermetric analysts. There is literally a department in the Mariners front office called the "Sabermetrics Department." Do you think Big Z hired them to not get their opinions on trades and signings? |
| 67. By: masonb on 12-11-2008 01:36:33 I'm saying that the guys at USSMariner are looking at the deal objectively and logically, and the stats don't lie. We only lost the equivalent of half a win in this deal, and that's assuming no upward progression, and that is for the players at the major league level, not to mention the fact that money was saved on payroll. That is not taking into account the prospects. You can't listen to Gammons and Phillips analysis, it's shallow |
| 68. By: Wishhiker on 12-11-2008 02:34:23 Well, Hammy, by your reasoning you are wrong about Reed being a good defensive CF. "If he was so good why would they trade him?" That's great reasoning because then everyone who ever gets traded must be garbage so all we should care about are the quantity of players instead of their quality. Good news...the M's just traded 4 for 7! |
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