| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 06-25-2011 |
Since late last season there has been some buzz about right-hander Jose Campos, who reportedly touched 96 mph on the radar gun down in the Venezuelan Summer League. He fed that buzz this spring when he touched 98 in a number of bullpen sessions, though sitting 95-plus is much different than touching 98 in a bullpen session.In his first start with Short-season Everett, he hit 100 mph on the stadium gun, which likely means 97-99. Clearly, Campos has big-time arm strength, but there have been no reports on everything else.
Until now.
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Comments
The following 61 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: Levitron on 06-25-2011 16:52:12 Good Stuff JAC! As a prospect would you put him 4th in the M's pitching ranks right now behind Paxton, Walker and Hultzen? As far as using him as a trade asset, would he have more value than say, Erasmo Ramirez at Double A? |
| 2. By: nighthawk180 on 06-25-2011 17:30:27 JAC, How would a coach break the front leg habit. Maybe a longer stride? Other than that I think he is an intriguing young prospect. Thx |
| 3. By: The Great Pumpkin on 06-25-2011 19:10:53 I'm excited for the mid-season prospect report. I'm curious to see how these top pitchers are ranked. |
| 4. By: Juan Valdez on 06-25-2011 20:16:27 How old is he? Also, where would he likely have been drafted this year, had he been eligible? |
| 5. By: marinermutt on 06-25-2011 22:00:13 Campos turns 19 on July 27. |
| 6. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-26-2011 00:50:22 Levitron, Yes and yes. nighthawk180, Focusing on rolling his back leg around with momentum and bending the knee. It has to be a concerted effort, though it doesn't have to be an exaggerated bend of the knee o be much better finish. Juan Valdez, As a draft pick, I'd say he'd have ranked somewhere between 25 and 50. |
| 7. By: CyFelix on 06-26-2011 01:05:55 I'm assuming we could see him starting in Clinton next year? I like him, just needs some polish and hopefully he can increase to our TOR starting pitching prospects. |
| 8. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-26-2011 01:46:59 Sure. |
| 9. By: safecochatter on 06-26-2011 08:32:47 thanks jason! last i knew the m's farm system was ranked about 14th or 15th. there was an article floating around a few weeks ago about how the m's farm system is going to take a big hit as pineda and ackley lose their prospect status. sure seems like they at least got some top notch pitching. what's your ranking now and what would it be after ackley loses prospect status? |
| 10. By: dewey on 06-26-2011 09:08:09 Props again to Bob Engle and his scouts in Latin America they have been the backbone of this Org for awhile keep them coming guys.. |
| 11. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-26-2011 11:29:08 safecochatter, I think I would have had the M's between 13th and 17th prior to the season and now would rank them about 20. Other clubs have lost some top guys to graduation, too, including the Royals and Rays, the top two farm systems in baseball entering the season. But look at all of the graduations -- Belt in SF, Gordon for the Dodgers, Brown for Philly, Drabek and eventually Lawrie for Toronto ... teams are using their young players. Once Hultzen signs it looks a few spots better, and the development of Taijuan Walker is key. |
| 12. By: Lailoken on 06-26-2011 12:23:24 Valdivia coming back from TJ & throwing five no-hit innings is also encouraging. Link |
| 13. By: maqman on 06-26-2011 12:45:35 There's an Everett Herald story on Campos' first start at: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110626/SPORTS/706269893 |
| 14. By: DAMellen on 06-27-2011 02:52:27 So where do you think Guillermo Pimentel would've been drafted if he'd spent the year as a senior in high school instead of a minor league ball player? And where would Martin Peguero and Phillips Castillo rank heading into next year? Would they look like first rounders? |
| 15. By: Jerry on 06-27-2011 10:39:34 Interesting discussion about the state of the M's farm system. Coming into this year, it seemed like the team had far more depth among position players. Now, it seems like the arms have caught up. I would think that Campos, Paxton, Walker, and Hultzen are in the top 5-7 or so in this system. In terms of position players, it seems like there isn't much in the upper levels of the system at all. Franklin's stock has to be down slightly, although he could definitely change things with a good second half performance in AA. Kyle Seager seems like the only guy who has improved much in the upper levels. Beyond that, its mostly very young international signings. Pimentel, M. Peguero, Alfredo Morales, and Phillips Castillo are exciting players. From what I've heard, they are all talented, but its tough to put much weight into numbers from the rookie leagues. Guys like Catricala, Martinez, and Raben are tough to evaluate because of the High Desert issue. And Chavez and Jones have not been doing well at all. Funny how fast things change. But although the system might not rank as highly as last year, it is doing its job: promoting useful players to the big league club. How many rookies have we seen this year? And Ackley, Smoak, and Pineda have emerged as cornerstone members of the team. That's great. Thus, I kinda like the way that Kevin Goldstein does his top prospect lists, with a "Top 10 Talents Under 25 and Under" section. From that perspective, things are going well for the M's. |
| 16. By: maqman on 06-27-2011 10:54:18 Andrew Carraway with Jackson is another pitcher having a good year so far, he has five wins and one loss and in 71 innings pitched has 17BB and 53SO, with an .290 ERA. |
| 17. By: Edman on 06-27-2011 11:45:13 Also of note is Tony Butler's impressive two starts. Yes, he is pitching at Everett, but a few more good starts, and he could be moved up. It wasn't a big investment and anything he does is a plus. Wouldn't it be ironic if he could come back to be the player everyone thought he could be, when he was traded to Baltimore? It's always good to hear about kids who make a comeback. |
| 18. By: nater on 06-27-2011 11:51:48 Jerry, it's easy to forget the reigning Cy Young winner is on our team and still only 25, too. From that perspective, I'd say, yeah, our young pitching talent is pretty good. |
| 19. By: Edman on 06-27-2011 11:53:51 Any word on signing of the top nine drafees? |
| 20. By: dawgncarolina on 06-27-2011 14:20:31 "I would think that Campos, Paxton, Walker, and Hultzen are in the top 5-7 or so in this system." Walker and Hultzen (upon signing) are an interesting 1 and 1a duo. My guess is that Hultzen will be ranked higher by the national press but Walker may get higher marks by the M's blogosphere. Barring injury or Hultzen not signing, those are going to be the top 2 guys. And Franklin will be #3 on everyone's list, with Paxton most likely #4 to everyone except maybe Keith Law who loves Seagar. After the top 4 it's pretty much anybody's guess at this point. Campos, Triunfel and Pimental figure to be in the mix, and I think Blake Beavan deserves to be as well. Some might put Catricala in there, and Brad Miller will get some love at the bottom of some top 10's. But really, the system at this point is Walker/Hultzen, Franklin, Paxton and a bunch of interesting question marks. |
| 21. By: Slack on 06-27-2011 14:34:01 I would rank Hultzen higher based on probability and possible quickness to the majors. But, I think we can agree that Walker has more upside. If Kevin Cron signs, would he be a Top Ten talent? |
| 22. By: dawgncarolina on 06-27-2011 14:48:03 I would think a signed Cron would be in the 9-15 mix along with Catricala, Miller, Littlewood, Martin Peguero (MPeg?), Castillo, and Raben. |
| 23. By: Gustafson on 06-27-2011 15:34:43 Slack, I would have agreed with you that Walker has more upside until I saw Hultzen's (all-too-brief) outing on Friday. It was frighteningly good. 95 mph consistently on the corners, a big breaking ball and pinpoint command. That was a really small sample size but showed me a lot of upside. It was very impressive stuff. Previously I had thought of Hultzen as more of a #2 or #3 starter with a high floor and low ceiling. The Hultzen of Friday in the CWS was a guy with a really high ceiling. |
| 24. By: masonb on 06-27-2011 16:34:16 My apologies, but could someone please tell me why Hultzen was pulled early on Friday? Especially with that kind of stuff going |
| 25. By: dawgncarolina on 06-27-2011 16:39:04 He was sick |
| 26. By: johnfree on 06-27-2011 17:09:00 #24 Part of it like dawg said, he was sick. The other part was the UV coach out-smarting himself in my opinion. That's just pure speculation on my part but I think he wanted to get Hultzen into the game the next day to. |
| 27. By: rjfrik on 06-27-2011 18:21:27 In my opinion you can't be anything but uber impressed with this front office when it comes to scouting and identifying pitching talent. They honestly are probably the best in the league at finding pitching. It's just insane. Either acquired in a trade or through drafting they have landed Felix, Pineda, Vargas, Fister, League, Pauley, Beaven, Lueke, Cortez, Robles, Vasquez, Grube, Wilhelmsen, Campos, Paxton, Walker and Hultzen among others. That is scary good and I know I'm leaving out some other big arms. Jack and Engle do this really really well. Also, it's nice to see the hitters that were promoted doing well, Jimenez, Seager and Franklin. It's interesting the Franklin is doing so well with the move. I wonder if him not doing as well as we thought he would down in High A was almost psychological. He played for the AA club at the end of the year last year and I bet he thought that was were he was going to end up. Then he didn't and maybe he was a little distracted by it. Psychology plays a huge role in baseball, if your head isn't in it, your body isn't going to be in it. Aslo anyone else want to see Jimenez come up to the show and be the left handed platoon DH bat? That guy can mash, reminds me a little of a Big Papi, a late bloomer who has a lot of thump as a DH. |
| 28. By: FWBrodie on 06-28-2011 14:25:00 Jason, if there is an injury in the M's rotation or the back of the bullpen who down in Tacoma is ready to step in? More specifically how are Beaven, Robertson, French, Leuke, Cortes, and the DA throwing right now in the scouts' eyes? |
| 29. By: dawgncarolina on 06-28-2011 14:26:45 Not Jason but I'd think Beavan has to be next in line for a rotation spot. I'm starting to think he'd be acceptable at it too. Not sure on who would get the call for the 'pen. |
| 30. By: slamcactus on 06-28-2011 14:29:26 Might want to take a look at the pitching talent in Tampa Bay and Atlanta, rj. The Ms have some good arms right now, but Atlanta and TB have the two best pitching prospects in the minors (Teheran and Moore), and on both teams, their big-league rotation is good enough that they don't have to rush either guy in order to stay in contention. And in Atlanta, it isn't even clear that Teheran is a present-day upgrade (less so in Tampa, where we can be pretty sure Moore is better than Niemann or Davis). To top it all off, each team also has other very good prospects in the high minors ready to step in besides their premier arm - Randall Delgado for Atl, Cobb and Torres for TB. |
| 31. By: nighthawk180 on 06-28-2011 15:33:00 Slam, While agree with your idea of getting better talent then what we have that being said who would we have to give to acquire said players? The only strength of the team right now is pitching. The questions asked were if one of our pitchers goes down who would replace them? The farm is pretty thin right now and it takes talent to get talent. We right now are not in the position to make a big trade to get some highly touted pitching prospects. What we need is some offense period. I would not give up what little value we still have to get stronger pitching when our offense is lacking so much. That seems like a waste of resources. We lose one pitcher okay we have a farm system. We lose one of Ichiro, Smoak, Ackley, Kennedy or to a lesser extent Olivo we are in a pretty rough spot. Who will we replace them with? Lets not be to hasty with our commodities before we look at the whole picture. Just my $.02, Nighthawk180 |
| 32. By: 11records on 06-28-2011 15:55:46 Any news on the Nick Franklin injury? I can't find anything online other than the milb.com report of yesterday. The whole non-disclosed injury/taken to hospital/not sure if he'll make the bus trip home combo is slightly ominous. |
| 33. By: 11records on 06-28-2011 17:02:04 Actually, Larry Stone just posted this: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/thehotstoneleague/2015452106_update_on_prospect_nick_frankl.html |
| 34. By: slamcactus on 06-28-2011 17:15:11 Nighthawk: I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I was responding to rjfrik's post where he said the Ms are "probably the best in the league at finding pitching." Going just on results, TB and Atl have been far more consistent in recent years and have a much better collection of pitching talent at the moment. |
| 35. By: nighthawk180 on 06-28-2011 17:51:47 Wow yeah your right totally misinterpreted that. My bad. When I do look at rjfriks post I agree with it. I think that the mariners have done in the past couple of years gotten some really good starting pitching. Not only from the farm but from the trade market, and free agency too. I think they also have done a great job drafting some pitching prospects too. Walker, Paxton, Hultzen to name a few were great pics. I must admit though I was really looking forward to a bat instead of Hultzen but cant really complain too much. It doesn't hurt to have too much pitching but damn do we need offense. |
| 36. By: dawgncarolina on 06-28-2011 20:07:26 Stinks about Franklin going on the DL, but one possible silver lining could be with Triunfel. I'm hoping Franky's recent ascension to 'Los's shortstop position lights a fire under Triunfel, especially now that he's been given at least another week at short. It's a longshot, but I'd love to see him go off this week and earn the promotion to Triple A when Franklin comes back to Triunfel can keep playing short. |
| 37. By: dawgncarolina on 06-28-2011 22:28:21 Martin Esteillon Peguero with his first pro homer in the AZL tonight He’s already demonstrating decent patience, nice to see the power emerging a bit. |
| 38. By: shemberry on 06-28-2011 23:30:42 Screaming, "You don't try to steal on a 3-0 count!!!" Wedge is trying so hard to be cute that he just ran us out of a tie. |
| 39. By: dawgncarolina on 06-29-2011 00:26:17 Agreed shem. I was pissed. I'm kind of done with Wedge. On a brighter note, Paxton had 7 k's and 0 bb's tonight. He just might be starting to get his control under, well, control. |
| 40. By: jase411 on 06-29-2011 00:31:28 Well Jason, you might as well put up a "what can we get for Bedard" post. Maybe they are planning on resigning him?? Montero from the Yanks a possibility? He is struggling a bit and maybe his stock is falling a hair. Although I am not sure where he fits in on this squad, other than a DH. Olivo seems to be doing a solid job. Good to see another exciting pitching prospect in the form of Campos. We seem to have good young arms, not so many bats! |
| 41. By: dawgncarolina on 06-29-2011 00:39:21 I can't imagine the Yanks giving up Montero for Bedard. But I do that deal in a heartbeat. I think we'll have to ratchet down our expectations a bit, and if the offers get too slim, it may well end up better to just keep him. I think you have to shop the guy though. |
| 42. By: slick on 06-29-2011 01:24:07 Devin Mesoraco or Alonso might be available for Bedard if Cincy looks to add an arm. |
| 43. By: rocketdawg31 on 06-29-2011 01:41:17 It's gonna be a reaaaaaaaaaal interesting trade deadline for us. I like Mesoraco, he'd certainly fit the bill as a catcher to grow with on this young-and-getting-younger team. But I don't think Bedard alone is enough to land him. One thing to mention,however: Jeremy Hermida is cooling his heels in AAA-Louisville for the Reds. He'd be a legit LF who's still just 27, and probably wouldn't cost a whole heckuva lot to acquire. |
| 44. By: rocketdawg31 on 06-29-2011 03:00:01 Also looks like the Mariners signed 18th-round pick Nick Valenza. I think I remember Jason liked that pick, maybe it's a solid "get" for the org. |
| 45. By: Edman on 06-29-2011 11:23:02 dawg, I'm not sure why it's important to you that Triunfel stay at shortstop. Jason and others have noted in past years that he has difficulty with routine plays. That's not a good sign for a shortstop. Franklin is at this moment, the shortstop of the future. Triunfel's ultimate destination is probably thirdbase, considering that Ackley has probably locked down secondbase. As for lighting a fire under Triunfel, considering that he hasn't shown much himself to have any fire yet, I doubt that a Franklin's injury has any affect. Not to mention, if that's what it takes to motivate him, then he probably doesn't have what it takes to sustain success as a major leaguer. Drive has to be internal and unaffected by circumstance. Your want to be the best should have it's own engine. I was surprised by the double-steal attempt with a 3-0 count, but keep in mind that it may have been a missed sign. If Wedge called it, then it certainly wasn't the smartest play. But, Kennedy and/or Ichiro could have missed a sign. |
| 46. By: baseballman on 06-29-2011 12:02:47 It's important for Triunfel to stay at SS because SS are more important and more valuable. Why move him off os SS because of Franklin? Triunfel is more valuable to the Mariners as a SS right now and in the near future (and most likely distant future). JAC has said it before that lately Triunfel has looked like he will be able to hold down the position of SS at least for a few more years. So, in years past, doesn't really matter. I'm not sure anyone should count on a smooth transition of Ryan to Franklin. Franklin had a set back this week with getting hit in the face with a bat in what seems to be a freak accident. We can't count on anything. But as of right now, Triunfel the SS is more valuable than Triunfel the 3B/2B, be that as a trade piece or just for us. |
| 47. By: Edman on 06-29-2011 13:17:01 The can't count on anything argument is not a very good one. There are few things you can count on. But, it's a very safe bet that Franklin is Seattle's shortstop of the future and Triufel will likely have to be moved to another position, as a major leaguer (if he gets that far). In a perfect world, you'd want all your infielders to be capable of playing shortstop. Scouts are smart enough to figure out that Triunfel was moved to give him playing time. Because he plays some games at second and third doesn't deter from his value. It's just a place in a boxscore, not an assessment of his talent. Yes, he's got more value as a shortstop. But until he proves he's the shortstop of the future, he's not going to get any extra breaks. |
| 48. By: Edman on 06-29-2011 13:36:09 Bard was just added to the 40 man roster. I guess Gimenez was injured on the collision at home last night. I've thought for a while that Josh should have been called up a long time ago. While Gimenez can play several positions....has he been anything other than a catcher this year? Bard is a better hitter and a good defensive catcher. On last night's double-steal....according to Baker, Ichiro and Kennedy were running on their own. So, Wedge didn't call it. A bad choice by both of them, considering the score. |
| 49. By: dawgncarolina on 06-29-2011 13:43:41 "On last night's double-steal....according to Baker, Ichiro and Kennedy were running on their own. So, Wedge didn't call it. A bad choice by both of them, considering the score." I saw that too. Terrible decision, especially by Kennedy. You lose at least a half step waiting to see if the guy in front of you is going. He got thrown out by a half step. |
| 50. By: StandinPat on 06-29-2011 14:22:05 "But, it's a very safe bet that Franklin is Seattle's shortstop of the future and Triufel will likely have to be moved to another position" 1) I'm not sure how safe a bet any 20 yr old with only 17abs above A ball is. 2) This is completely irrelevant to where Triunfel's value lies. Triunfel is more valuable as a SS than as a 2B or 3B, both to the M's and to other teams, period. He's not got improve his chances of sticking at short by not playing there. Ideally you want him getting as many reps as possible until its absolutely certain he can't play there. |
| 51. By: baseballman on 06-29-2011 15:38:55 "But until he proves he's the shortstop of the future, he's not going to get any extra breaks." That's really a ridiculous way to look at things. With that way of thinking, Littlewood should be moved off of SS right now, when Miller is signed, he shouldn't be played at SS or 2B because they haven't yet proved that they can unseat Franklin? What about guys like Poythress, Raben and Cron? They haven't proved they will unseat Smoak, should they not play at 1B? No, you play a player at the position that they bring the most value until they can't play that position anymore. Where Triunfel plays should not have anything to do with Franklin. When Triunfel is promoted to Tacoma, you think he should be moved to 3B strictly because of Franklin's presence in AA? So what if Franklin is a better defender at SS, that doesn't automatically mean Triunfel himself can't handle the position. |
| 52. By: rjfrik on 06-29-2011 19:06:24 Exactly what Pat and Baseballman said. |
| 53. By: Mackie on 06-29-2011 23:37:33 What 50-52 said! lol Having some organizational depth at a number of positions is a good thing. Looks like we're building some depth at such a valuable position as SS. Having some talented kids who can play a variety of positions is great too! Having Littlewood, Franklin, Triunfel, Miller... it can only be a good thing. Accumulate enough solid young players, and sooner or later some will become redundant and can be moved in trades for missing pieces. Looks like we are getting some of that nice organizational depth at SS, with pitching, with guys who may prove versatile (like Seager) and maybe now with catchers in the lower levels. |
| 54. By: Bigfatmax on 06-30-2011 10:55:40 I read: "Looks like we're building some depth at such a valuable position as SS." If so, why are we using reapeteadly Liddi as SS in Tacoma? I was convinced that's a matter of non confidence in Kazmar stuff, but why don't send Triunfel up there, while he was predicted to a ETA 2010 in SS position? Or even playing the Seager card, as he's also tauted as SS? |
| 55. By: baseballman on 06-30-2011 11:12:16 I could be wrong but I think Liddi at SS is nothing more than keeping him in the lineup to get him more ABs. The INF is pretty full with Mangini and 3B and Seager at 2B. Plus the Mariners have said that they like their players to be versatile and will play them at multiple positions. But I don't think there's anyway they view Liddi as someone who can man SS in Seattle at any time other than an extreme emergency. |
| 56. By: dawgncarolina on 06-30-2011 11:26:24 "Or even playing the Seager card, as he's also tauted as SS?" Not sure who's tauting him, but the scouting consensus is split over whether he can even handle second adequately. Of course, scouts said the same about Ackley who's been fine if not better, but I still think it's safe to conclude there's just about no way Seager can handle short. It's not likely Liddi can either, but I think baseballman's right - they're just trying to find someway to keep his bat in the lineup. |
| 57. By: Adam P. Boyd on 06-30-2011 11:28:51 He is absolutely right that it is about the ABs; Liddi is a joke at SS. Seager is fine at 2b - these moves are all about getting him reps at third for a possible September debut at the hot corner in Seattle. |
| 58. By: Edman on 06-30-2011 13:08:41 dawg, I think the scouting consensus that you mention about Seager is Pre-draft or early "opinion" at the start of his major league career. I find those kinds of scouting speculation nearly worthless. Unless a kid had no fingers on his hands. The highly rated fielders get the most looks early on. Once a kid gets a year or so in organized ball, on more consistent playing surfaces with better instruction, then I give them more credit. I think most of the initial scouting reports are based on conjecture and limited data. And, keep in mind, scout opinions vary. We all tend to concentrate on flaws, moreso than talents. Basically, humans are geared to look for failure less than success. |
| 59. By: StandinPat on 06-30-2011 17:06:17 Liddi isn't even a decent 3B let alone a SS. Players typically move down the defensive spectrum not up it. The only reason he is playing there is to get ABs, and this isn't anything new. The Rainiers had something like 4 1B/DH types a year or two ago, so occasionally guys like Brad Nelson or Tommy Everidge found themselves in the OF. Minor league teams simply can't always have a "true" player at every position. Seager might be so so at SS in a pinch, but he's a 2B/3B if anything. Ed, those reports are from what he has done as a pro. There are still some questions of how well he can handle 2B and that 3B might be the spot where he can be an average or better defender, but may not have the power for there, hence the "utility player" tag. His defense has certainly improved since being drafted, but it still has a ways to go. On the bright side, every indication is that he is the type of guy who will work his ass off to get where he needs to be. |
| 60. By: slamcactus on 06-30-2011 19:26:10 "Franklin is at this moment, the shortstop of the future. Triunfel's ultimate destination is probably thirdbase, considering that Ackley has probably locked down secondbase." Ah, that brings me back to the last time we made decisions about other players because the FO assumed we already had a shortstop of the future. Fast-forward a few years, and Yuni is plying his trade as the worst player in the majors elsewhere, and Asdrubal Cabrera's been the third most valuable SS in MLB this year behind only Tulo and Reyes. If Triunfel can play short, he should get a chance to stick at short. If the org has decided they can't, then he shouldn't. Nick Franklin's label as the shortstop of the future should have zero influence on that decision. |
| 61. By: slamcactus on 06-30-2011 19:26:42 If the org has decided that *He can't, that is. |
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