| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 01-26-2010 |
UPDATE 10:44 AM: Jon Heyman is reporting its actually $10 million with $3.5 in potential bonuses.
So,Ben Sheets picks Oakland, since they ended up offering more dough than anyone else -- one year, $10 million. It was at least $3.5 more than Seattle was willing to go, and I was told $6.5 was the second-highest number discussed, though I'm not sure it was officially offered, nor am I sure it was Seattle that spoke of that number. I have a feeling it was Texas.
I am not sure why Sheets would pass on a chance to pitch in the postseason, but I was chatting with Keith Law and he makes a good point. Maybe Sheets, coming off the year away and elbow surgery, prefers not to pitch in October, when pitcher do tend to wear down.
This cannot surprise any of us, however, and should not disappoint us that much. Would have been nice, but $8 million blows payroll and if Jack Zduriencik can make a trade for a Francisco Liriano or Aaron Harang, or a pitcher we've yet to talk about that is at least solid mid-rotation worthy without paying him $8 million for 2010, that's what we should prefer anyway.
But the addition of Sheets makes Oakland a lot like the Mariners. Built around run prevention, Oakland makes the AL West a four-team race if Sheets is healthy enough.
What else could be next for Seattle? In addition to the Liriano, Harang, Ricky Nolasco and Orlando Hudson ideas, there isn't much to talk about, since I don't hear that Felipe Lopez is an option.
Anyone have any ideas?
sheets-to-oakland
Comments
The following 61 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: studentofthegame on 01-26-2010 12:49:04 How many wins have the A's added this offseason? Sheets if healthy has to add a few. Can Oakland really leapfrog that far with Cust, Fox and Sheets? I still have faith that the M's are better. It will all come apart on the field starting in April. |
| 2. By: mazono on 01-26-2010 12:49:22 Josh Willingham? |
| 3. By: CrustyJuggler on 01-26-2010 12:50:25 Still think Oakland finishes last in the West. Their pitching still falls short and their offense is odds on the weakest in the AL. I think Jack has something up his sleeve and it's probably something that hasn't been speculated. Would love Liriano though. |
| 4. By: jgstecker on 01-26-2010 12:50:38 Jarrod Washburn anyone? That's about all that's left on the market. Pedro or Smoltz might be fun. Garland is worse than Fister/Vargas. Bedard and Wang won't be any use until June at the earliest, so they won't help fill the rotation void. What might it take to get Conor Jackson for a LF/1B/DH role? He's squeezed for playing time in Arizona between LaRoche, Parra, and Chris Young. |
| 5. By: seatowndawg on 01-26-2010 12:51:53 Jason, Do you think ST pitching is still tops on Jack's list? I have a feeling this will end up coming via the trade route. Do you think that the Sheets domino had to fall in order for the next step to be taken by M's? |
| 6. By: JohnMcD on 01-26-2010 12:53:05 Get Nolasco. The A's actually might have a decent staff this year. |
| 7. By: Rudolf on 01-26-2010 12:53:40 John Smoltz might be worth a flyer. Last year was forgettable, and 2008 washed out after a dominant April, but in 2007, at age 40, he was a force. His K/9 numbers in 2009 were strong despite his troubles. He might be in serious decline, but he might not. Gotta consider him an option, right? |
| 8. By: JohnMcD on 01-26-2010 13:01:32 So basically the A's signed Ben Sheets for half a year and will trade him at the deadline to build their farm... |
| 9. By: Rudolf on 01-26-2010 13:05:42 Gotta give Beane credit. If Sheets stays healthy-- substantial IF-- then five million for sweet prospects sounds like a good plan. If the A's play better than expected and compete, then the plan is even better. If Sheets gets hurt then Beane looks dumb. But hey, he had money to blow. |
| 10. By: Stormton on 01-26-2010 13:09:19 I wanted Sheets a lot, but even I would have been a little pissed if we gave him that kind of money. Hopefully Jack has something else lined up. I'm getting antsy for another move. |
| 11. By: MarinersFan on 01-26-2010 13:10:03 I like the Nolasco suggestion. He will earn just 3.8M in 2010 and be under team control through 2012. So the question is what does he cost to acquire? |
| 12. By: CrustyJuggler on 01-26-2010 13:17:28 I would prefer Nolasco to everyone else mentioned but he would also be the toughest to get. |
| 13. By: MarinersFan on 01-26-2010 13:17:44 On December 6, 09 Juan C. Rodriguez broke the news that Nolasco is not available. That is too bad. What would it cost to pry Zack Greinke from the Royals. I know it would be buying high, but he would fit nicely behind Felix and Lee. |
| 14. By: JohnMcD on 01-26-2010 13:18:49 Doubt Greinke is available...Plus I doubt we have what it would take to get him, but maybe I am wrong? |
| 15. By: The Great Pumpkin on 01-26-2010 13:20:37 What about Johnny Damon? If he's out there for as cheap as they're saying, than I say he's a good option. |
| 16. By: MarinersFan on 01-26-2010 13:24:24 JohnMcD, Remembering the Betancourt to the Royals for Cortes and Saito makes me think that it is possible. |
| 17. By: mazono on 01-26-2010 13:25:54 Nolasco would be nice. But remember what Jason said in the subscriber section on why he wasn't in that trade head to the M's? we don't have the upper level arm(s) (quaility) in the system to acquire him. (sorry Jason if I mis quoted you or twisted my words up). |
| 18. By: JohnMcD on 01-26-2010 13:29:33 MarinersFan: I hear what you are saying, but not after the year that Greinke just had, I just can't see that happening. |
| 19. By: MarinersFan on 01-26-2010 13:31:58 Either Pedro Martinez or John Smoltz are interesting options, but they're major question marks. It is doubtful either can go the full season much less into the playoffs. Washburn is still on the market but who knows how his knee will react in 2010. |
| 20. By: seatowndawg on 01-26-2010 13:32:30 There's no way KC trades Greinke!!! Nolasco would be a nice long term #3. |
| 21. By: ASUBoyd on 01-26-2010 13:35:03 Talking about getting Grienke is just ridiculous |
| 22. By: seatowndawg on 01-26-2010 13:35:23 Jason, Do you think Pedro could even give us 10-12 wins with this offense? I wouldn't mind Pedro if we could get that out of him. |
| 23. By: JohnMcD on 01-26-2010 13:36:18 Are we looking for a Lefty or Righty at the SP position? |
| 24. By: JohnMcD on 01-26-2010 13:37:47 Agreed ASUBoyd...I think we have a better shot at Adrian Gonzalez then Greinke and we don't have a shot at Gonzo. |
| 25. By: seatowndawg on 01-26-2010 13:38:57 It's always nice to have the lefty, but a right, left, right, left, right with Felix, Lee, Righty, RRS, and Snell looks pretty good as well. |
| 26. By: mazono on 01-26-2010 13:43:33 JOhn McD-I am leaning towards a a righty to stick between Lee and RRS |
| 27. By: littlelinny6 on 01-26-2010 13:45:57 {nothing to do with Ben Sheets} |
| 28. By: Edman on 01-26-2010 13:46:48 Some of you need to find a little reality. It would be great if other teams traded us their inexpensive young, affordable pitchers. But, that isn't at all, a real possibility. No Greinke. No Nolasco. Unlikely Liriano. Maybe Harang, because of his age and salary. You're looking at someone who is some kind of liability, be it age or salary. Nobody is going to help us get better, because we want them to. Reality is that it's probably gonna be someone like Pedro, Smoltz or Washburn, if at all. |
| 29. By: MarinersFan on 01-26-2010 13:50:01 Edman, My only problem with your point is that you would you have said the same thing before Zduriencik acquired Lee? |
| 30. By: seatowndawg on 01-26-2010 13:57:11 I don't think Nolasco is an absolute no. He is going to cost money in the future that Florida doesn't have. They resigned Josh Johnson to an extention and might not have the money to give Nolasco. I agree that it isn't likely but not totally impossible. He would definitely cost a lot of prospects to get. |
| 31. By: Galway on 01-26-2010 13:58:18 The Reds seem motivated to move Harang. Of what's out there I'd go with him. To me he seems like the pitcher that would be most helped by a change to SAFECO. Harang is not a turn around become an ace canidate but I believe he can be a solid #3 in a place like SAFECO and in a positive environment. Of the injured and aged I'd go Wang because of his groundballs and our good defense. Ideally I'd like another bat but there is nothing out there that has overwhelming appeal for me. Maybe a young bat in house suprises us or an attractive bat falls out of favor with their current team. Wait and see. |
| 32. By: Edman on 01-26-2010 13:59:37 MarinersFan.....that was pure luck, more than anything else. If you think it was some magic dust that Jack sprinkled on Ruben Amaro, you're kidding yourself. Philly was modivated by their infactuation for Halladay, not because Seattle offered great prospects. That was one sweetheart deal. Using it as an example for other deals, isn't at all reasonable. He might get a similar kind of deal from Cincy, if they want to lose some of Harang's salary. But it's not going to be a great value. And please, no praise for Beane, in regard to genious related to prospects he might get for Sheets. $10 million is a mighty high price to pay, if he sees that as a reason to do the deal. It might be an unforseen benefit. But, he could just as likely be no more than a B Free Agent, resulting in a supplemental pick. |
| 33. By: Edman on 01-26-2010 14:01:35 seatowndawg, the Marlins just got slapped for not spending money. Moving Nolasco for what could even be considered salary constraints, would simply get them in trouble again. |
| 34. By: Galway on 01-26-2010 14:04:18 I really liked Sheets but at 10 mill guaranteed was a stretch. The Marlins may suprise on the cash side and sign more of their guys. They have pressure from MLB, locally (Miami) because of taxpayer money in the stadium, and they should see some revenue bump. Land Shark where they have been playing is one of the worse stadiums and has aweful attendance. Of course their new stadium is in an aweful location but still should see more revenue as they focus more on the latino community. |
| 35. By: Plaws on 01-26-2010 14:05:43 With Sheets gone the next FA SP, quality-wise, seems to be Bedard. The question on him being healthy for the playoffs is the biggest issue. It seems like having an extra spot in the rotation for the first couple months might be good to have extended competition for the last 2 spots when Bedard is healthy. I wouldn't count on it being a slow start, though it does risk that chance. Bedard may not sign for awhile yet. Trading for a more cost controlled SP now would probably be better in every way, except that Bedard would only cost $$ and probably not prohibitive $$. Since the team is very low on trade chips I'd prefer a FA unless the FO can swing another amazing deal. I just hope that if there's a mid-season need there is still enough young talent to pay for a trade then. If Bedard (I was seeing the same with Harden/Sheets) were signed and injured by midseason we could still have the spare parts to offer that we do now. For that matter, Liriano/Harang could still be available. It seems late enough to think that most teams are probably done with major trades until July anyway. Not that a deal couldn't be worked out, just that there's probably less competition now than earlier. Although more competition at the deadline means we might be able to pay less now... If I were the Twins GM, Lopez wouldn't be nearly enough for me to trade him away. To get him the M's will have to part with more value, though I have no idea what players Bill Smith would value as being enough. The same is true for Harang. All things considered (unless I missed any?) I think Bedard is the best option for #3 SP. |
| 36. By: seatowndawg on 01-26-2010 14:17:18 I agree Edman, I just think out of all the trade route guys he could possibly be had. We would have to give up a ton which I'm not in favor of. I think we would have to overpay for Liriano. I'm a little skeptical about if he would be able to turn things around. He has great upside but??? |
| 37. By: Jason A. Churchill on 01-26-2010 14:17:49 And on Dec 11, Juan C. Rodriguez reported that Josh Johnson and the Marlins would not continue to talk about a multi-year deal... Don't read too much into those. |
| 38. By: MarinersFan on 01-26-2010 14:21:08 Thanks Jason, I didn't catch that one. I like Nolasco and if he can be had for about what we gave up for Lee the deal would be well worth it. |
| 39. By: Rudolf on 01-26-2010 14:27:19 Edman, we can praise Beane all we want. No one is offering to be his boyfriend. He may have overpaid, but he was in a position to do so, and has his options open to him depending on how the season plays out. |
| 40. By: Plaws on 01-26-2010 14:28:56 Jason, how well do you think the M's can afford to part with what you think it'd take to get a Liriano or Harang via trade at this point? Do expectations on the season make the addition worthy of going thinner in the minors than they might otherwise? |
| 41. By: pwhit44 on 01-26-2010 14:33:59 Our top two of Felix-Lee is the best in the division (maybe baseball). But if healthy, Oakland's Sheets-Anderson-Duchscherer is the best 1-2-3 in the division. Is it just me? Health is obviously the concern. But that provided, that trio is filthy. |
| 42. By: Rudolf on 01-26-2010 14:36:34 I'd put Felix, Lee, RRS over that Oakland trio. |
| 43. By: MarinersFan on 01-26-2010 14:37:27 I think when you combine the injury concern of Sheets and Duchsherer put together it helps ease the reason for concern. Even if the M's didn't add another starter before opening day a top three of Felix, Lee and Rowland-Smith is really good! |
| 44. By: seatowndawg on 01-26-2010 14:42:10 I agree Rudolf, I think RRS will have a better season than Duchsherer. |
| 45. By: pwhit44 on 01-26-2010 14:43:30 Top end talent, we beat them out. But Sheets-Anderson is really, really talented, and I take Anderson or a healthy Duchscherer any day over RRS. I said health provided, so I know the odds of both Sheets and Duchscherer being on the field all year are slim. |
| 46. By: Edman on 01-26-2010 14:47:20 I disagree, Seattle's 1-2, is greater than Oakland's 1-2-3, so any reasonable return on our #3, is icing on the cake. There are a lot of suspects in Oakland's 1-2-3. They might be good, but the best in the division? Anderson has one whole season under his belt. Duchscherer has never pitched more than 141 innings. Sheets is sheets, but at his best, he's not better than Hernandez or Lee. A ton of ifs. I think many pitching staffs could play the what if game, but Hernandez and Lee have passed that point. |
| 47. By: pwhit44 on 01-26-2010 14:56:40 For the love of goo, do I need to be more clear? I took the if's and health concerns out of the equation. In a vacuum, Oakland's 1-2-3 is really, really good. I completely agree that the vacuum scenario won't happen. It's crystal clear that I would take Felix-Lee-RRS over the Oakland trio in real life. Not even close. |
| 48. By: Edman on 01-26-2010 15:02:17 pwhit44, in all fairness, you didn't say they were really, really good. You said that if healthy, their 1-2-3 is the best in the division. That's not the same thing, and is going to generate replies. |
| 49. By: PositivePaul on 01-26-2010 15:16:04 The thing I find both interesting and a little worrisome -- Oakland isn't exactly a high-payroll team. Say their payroll is 60-70 million -- Sheets takes up 1/6-1/7 of that at least. That seems like an awful huge risk to bear, unless they're going to bump payroll up to 80-90 million. Even if they plan on trading him at the deadline prospects, that's still a huge chunk of payroll on such a binary player. It frightens me that Beane would take that big of a risk -- it sends a message out, clearly, to the rest of the division. As Dave Cameron just Tweeted, too - if they add Damon along with Sheets, you have to include them in the "Serious Contenders" list. I get that if he's healthy, he will be a safe bet to give Oakland some really good innings. There's additional risk in that he's an NL pitcher coming to the AL, but Sheets is the type that it probably isn't much of a concern. I like the idea of now going really hard after Liriano. I'm just not sure it would take a package worth surrendering. Those of you wanting Greinke should put down your crack pipes. The odds of KC trading Greinke are about as good as the odds of the Mariners trading King Felix... |
| 50. By: JohnMcD on 01-26-2010 15:20:24 Agree Positive Paul. The Royals are not trading Greinke no ifs ands or buts. If Oakland landed Damon this AL West is going to be even more exciting. |
| 51. By: littlelinny6 on 01-26-2010 16:17:41 Chris, I'm not sure why I got my comment deleted before (Lopez for Willingham to improve the team) because the question posed in this thread is about what the M's do next and not about Ben Sheets necessarily. Quoting from above: "What else could be next for Seattle? In addition to the Liriano, Harang, Ricky Nolasco and Orlando Hudson ideas, there isn't much to talk about, since I don't hear that Felipe Lopez is an option. Anyone have any ideas? I posted an idea and it got nixed--just trying to understand that is all. 90% of the posts in this thread have nothing to do with Ben Sheets. It is my understanding this thread is about what the M's do next. |
| 52. By: jgstecker on 01-26-2010 16:26:57 I'm warming up to the idea of bringing Damon in. I'd feel better having him in LF than Bradley. I also don't understand the fixation with getting a righty into the lineup. There's no lefty power in there either. Signing Damon likely means Langerhans gets sent packing to bring in a right-handed 4th OF (Eric Byrnes would be ideal). Speaking of the bench, is there any reason Alfredo Amezega couldn't do Langerhans and Hannahan's job at the same time? I mean, lord help us if we have both 'han's in the lineup simultaneously. Amezega's got the good glove in OF and doesn't embarass himself in the IF. They're all zeros with the bat. Amezega-Tui-Griffey would be a solid, versatile bench with bats from both sides of the plate. |
| 53. By: Stormton on 01-26-2010 16:36:54 I'm really starting to hope that Lopez/Willingham speculation starts picking up speed. Damon would be alright by me, too. Doesn't seem like he'll be gettin a whole lot of money. |
| 54. By: jkg_1218 on 01-26-2010 16:49:13 Jason, Would you sign Johnny Damon for 4 or 5 million? |
| 55. By: Boise M on 01-26-2010 16:49:48 I wouldn't count out the A's picking up either or both of Byrnes and Damon. The A's could be scary good...or scary bad. I'm in the Sheets for $5 million and flipped for prospects at the deadline by Beane camp. And, I agree with the no way to anything over $6-7 mil from the M's for Sheets. I've been reading here for the past three or four years and this site is the best it's ever been. Please don't go the editing/censorship route, especially now when the news is so slow in coming out. I, like you guys, don't want to read anyone's manifesto either, but my scroll button works just fine. Keep up the great work! |
| 56. By: Chris Crawford on 01-26-2010 16:49:59 Linny, 100 percent my fault, it's what happens when I don't post the thread. Completely apologize. |
| 57. By: Edman on 01-26-2010 16:57:34 Not at all scary good.....just better than they were. Scary good would have been Sheets landing in Texas, provided he and Harden, if either could have stayed healthy. |
| 58. By: Chris Crawford on 01-26-2010 16:57:49 I have no desire to go to the censorship route, thats not Prospect Insider and it never will be.... I screwed up and edited a good post because I didn't follow directions. And I completely appreciate your scroll button working just fine, but it's just not user friendly, and I don't think that many people disagree with me. Sorry guys. |
| 59. By: littlelinny6 on 01-26-2010 18:09:33 No problem Chris, just wanted to make sure I was following the rules. Supposedly Orlando Hudson is close to signing with a team but wouldn't say which one, Jason, have you heard anything recently linking the M's to Hudson as the possible mystery team? |
| 60. By: maqman on 01-27-2010 12:35:18 The AL West just got more interesting and more better but I still like our chances. In Z I Trust! This keeps up the AL East may only get one team to the playoffs in years to come. Texas is the one I worry about most, maybe not this year but down the line they will be the ones we have to measure up against. |
| 61. By: randallball on 01-27-2010 19:09:19 Noah Lowry anyone? |
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