| By Chris Crawford |  | By 01-18-2010 |
There is some talk right now that the Mariners may be in negotations to bring back Jarrod Washburn.
As we find out more --and we assuredly will -- Prospect Insider will report anything susbstanial we hear.
In the mean time, it makes sense -- depending on the terms. Washburn for a year at 5 million or so would provide more stability at the back end of the rotation and put less pressure on Ryan Rowland-Smith and Ian Snell.
It's not ideal, and I would much prefer the team press hard for Sheets or go the trade route, but he's a better option then Jon Garland or the years it would take for Joel Pineiro.
What do you guys think about bringing Washburn back? Gab away!
washburn-might-make-sense
Comments
The following 42 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: Slack on 01-18-2010 15:46:54 I'm open to it mainly because of the idea that it could take some pressure off of RRS and Snell. If its for cheap, I'm listening. |
| 2. By: marinerforever on 01-18-2010 15:57:04 Iam only interestedin washburn at aboutone yr 3million i would much rather go in a trade route |
| 3. By: Rudolf on 01-18-2010 16:00:15 Unimpressed. We can do better, can't we? |
| 4. By: marinermanmatt on 01-18-2010 16:04:32 Honestly I don't think I could stand another year of Washburn. Just too many bad memories associated with Bavasi. I would rather stick with our current options than another year of a terrible memory. |
| 5. By: Edman on 01-18-2010 16:43:45 matt, isn't that rather narrow minded? What about the Jarrod Washburn who was effective under Wak and Adair? You can't look past the Bavasi era, if Washburn is here? I'm neither opposed or in favor of. That said, I don't see much chance of Sheets being in Seattle. So, overpaying for for someone just to avoid bringing back Washburn is kind of foolish. Washburn as the #3 starter, behind Felix and Cliff, and in front of hyphen and Snell might be a pretty effective rotation. It all gets down to money. For the right price, I'm not opposed. |
| 6. By: Edman on 01-18-2010 16:45:08 Rudolf, can we do better, without spending a lot of money or trading our best prospects? I'd be interested in knowing where you think those other options are. |
| 7. By: seatowndawg on 01-18-2010 16:48:52 I think we would look better with Sheets at the #3, but I don't think he is really an option. I hope I'm wrong! You would think the front office is aware of Washburn's injury situation and where he stands on the rehab front. If they think he can come back and even be somewhat close to what he was for us last year at the 5 mil range then I'm fine. Rick Adair did seem to have a huge impact on him last year. |
| 8. By: Chris Crawford on 01-18-2010 16:49:09 Washburn is about as exciting as watching grass grow, but I'm with Edman. I'm just not sure if theres a better cost effective option on the table. |
| 9. By: baseballman on 01-18-2010 16:59:22 isnt having washburn and RRS in the rotation a little redundant? especially if they go back-to-back? Felix Lee Washburn RRS Snell 3 lefties in a row? hmm...i guess the way its set up might not matter once the season gets going and snell and RRS could swap, but i dunno. If we make it to the playoffs, do we really want to hand the ball off to washburn every 3 games or so (ya i know WAY to far ahead and anything can happen, but i cant help myself!) but if we are getting the washburn we traded away, then that would sell me more |
| 10. By: FWBrodie on 01-18-2010 17:09:08 UUHGGGhhh... stress level rising. 7.33 ERA with Detroit last season running through my mind. Flashbacks of Washburn being overpaid and shelled for three years increasing. Speaking completely objectively, probably a smart idea considering the relative price and years and the fact that Wash was pretty incredible last season with that defense behind him. Definitely a letdown after all the talk about Sheets, Liriano, etc. though. |
| 11. By: Schyhart on 01-18-2010 17:24:21 As a fan of baseball people - ones with good character/personality - I like Washburn and was sad to see him go last year. I want him because he wanted to play for My favorite team. But I'm not sure that what my heart wants always makes good baseball sense - that's why I read what you guys have to say. |
| 12. By: Willmore on 01-18-2010 17:56:41 1 year deal for 4 or 5 mil, I'm fine, on two conditions: 1. He never pitches outside of Safeco ... ok, not very realistic, fine one condition. 2. This does not hinder our chances of getting another bat. Washburn is an improvement over the Snell, Vargas, Bag of Hammers combo of our 4-5 starters, but not such a great improvement that we should max out our budget on him. If we get a bat first, then Washburn makes sense. |
| 13. By: Chris Crawford on 01-18-2010 17:57:00 Washburn and hyphen wouldn't pitch back to back, try not to attach titles to the guys, if snell starts 3rd it doesnt mean hes the third most valuable starter. Again, I would love Sheets, but theres little concrete evidence that he will accept the right type of contract OR if there's mutual interest. Washburn>Garland. Pinero>Washburn (but not for 2 or 3 years at 7 per). Washburn >Fister Vargas French. |
| 14. By: Rudolf on 01-18-2010 18:05:41 Well Edman, there aren't a lot of options. It's hard to avoid A. spending lots of money; B. trading good prospects; or C. settling for someone uninspiring. If the price were right, I am a fan of Harang, like many others. Spend the money, not the prospects. One of the Minnesota starters would be nice: Slowey, Baker, Liriano. The price may be too high. Ricky Nolasco would be awesome. Once again, the price in prospects may be prohibitive. Maybe Zach Duke is available? A package of Lopez, Lowe and B prospects would be an acceptable price to pay for Nolasco, Harang, or Liriano/Slowey. I realize none of these guys may out-pitch Washburn. Overpaying Sheets may not be a bad idea. As much as I hate to say it, Pineiro on a two-year deal could be an option. Bedard on a flyer could at least compliment Washburn. I want to see Harang, Sheets or Nolasco in an M's uniform in 2010. If we can't make it work, Washburn could conceivably fill the #3 hole adequately. |
| 15. By: Edman on 01-18-2010 18:10:53 Beyond the first two starters, rotation order is not relative to a pitcher's value. I would think that Washburn follow Lee, but Snell would follow Washburn and hyphen would follow Snell. At least at the beginning of the season, it will probably be more dependant on match-ups, than preceived value. |
| 16. By: bladestunner316 on 01-18-2010 18:25:45 Chris Crawford, I don't mean to hijack here but I paid for the PI Sub and logged in but do not see where to go for the content. Can you please help me? |
| 17. By: 200tang on 01-18-2010 18:27:01 I'd definitely pass. I don't see enough of a difference between him and Vargas to feel like spending more than 4M on him. The only way I want him on the team is if every other pitching option is gone. |
| 18. By: bleacher creature on 01-18-2010 18:33:23 i realize that i'm probably opening myself up to a flogging, but I'm kind of hoping that we sign Bedard to an incentive laden deal and bring him into the fold when he's healthy. Maybe use Fister or one of the other young bucks to shore up the 5 spot until then. |
| 19. By: CrustyJuggler on 01-18-2010 18:37:55 Adding Washburn would be another decent, yet unexciting move. I wouldn't pay a cent more than 5 million for the guy though. And yet he already turned down 5.5 from the Twins (allegedly). My question is this. How much more could Sheets realistically demand? He's not getting 10 million. Its more in the realm of probability that he gets a deal somewhat similar to Harden and Penny. 1 year for 6-8 million with some performance clauses and maybe an option. So that leads to the questioning of would you rather have Washburn for 5-6 million or Sheets for, say, 6-8? I have a feeling we sign Wash for 6 million and watch Sheets sign for 7 million with somebody else. Then we will all be free to theorize that -- "He must not have wanted to come here in the first place". Not really diggin' going through that useless guess work again. Kotchman part 2, if you will. |
| 20. By: Chris Crawford on 01-18-2010 18:44:43 Bladestunner, any post that has a "click here" will have subscriber information, there is subscriber only info in the sheets, branyan, options" post, and a few others. Hopefully that works for you. |
| 21. By: bladestunner316 on 01-18-2010 18:50:41 Thank you Sir! |
| 22. By: Edman on 01-18-2010 18:54:48 I'm just curious, CrustyJuggler. You assume that Sheets really wants to come to the West Coast, and to the AL. It's not about how much he'll demand. It's about how much some team will pay him. He's throwing an audition tomorrow. Several teams will be in attendance. If he's throwing as well as he expects, then all it takes is two teams to want him, and start the bidding process. I doubt he'd accept less than a two year deal. And, I'm sure he expects at least $10 million a year. Will he get it? Who knows? But, this concept that all Seattle has to do is pay for him to be here, is a very simplistic approach. First, he has to want to come to Seattle. Do you know his answer to that question? I sure don't. Lets not assume it's simply a matter of thowing money at him. |
| 23. By: Edman on 01-18-2010 18:58:26 Rudolf......Lopez, Lowe and B prospects would be acceptable to you. It's not about what's acceptable to you. If the rumors are true, and Seattle's been trying to trade Lopez, then what make you think he's got a lot of value? I love the fake trade scenarios where we send little, and get back a lot. |
| 24. By: ARock on 01-18-2010 19:37:53 I like Washburn for the right price ($5M for a year would be great). Safeco and the Mariners excellent outfield defense minimizes his weaknesses and makes him an effective pitcher. |
| 25. By: FatBat on 01-18-2010 19:54:42 Take away Washburn's first half last yr. and what kind of numbers are we looking at over the length of that contract? He's another yr older and his 87 mph fastball looks like grapefruit flung off a plastic catapult! PASS!! Please. I like the guy but, no. We have internal options if we need to, Fister, is my choice. But, I don't think any of us would be happy with that. After getting Figgins and trading for Lee our team got a Large helping of wishfull thinking. We all wanted that middle of the order bat and we settled for Kotchman....Fine. Now we are thinking...Luts make the rotation better...and we sign Washburn? No thanks. If the consenses is we are One bat away then get it. Or, one pitcher away...Then Get It! The ultimate goal is world series. |
| 26. By: Edman on 01-18-2010 20:04:26 I'll go with what Wak and Rick Adair think. If they think Washburn was a fluke, then I doubt they would recommend signing him. If you think JZ is operating in a void, regarding Washburn's usefulness, you're kidding yourself. It's not like his knee was fully healthy in Detroit. A healthy Washburn is greater then a Fister, or any of the other hopefuls. |
| 27. By: Rudolf on 01-18-2010 20:21:40 Edman, if you're suggesting we're all redundant for trying to package what we don't necessarily need to fill a need, then congrats, captain obvious, you're brilliant. Lopez, Lowe and ~insert prospects here~ is a decent little grip in my opinion. Maybe no one else in MLB shares my opinion. Maybe it takes a little more. Maybe Lopez has the same value as pulling Gregg Jefferies off his couch. But it's not like I'm talking about staff aces, here. Harang, Liriano, Nolasco... they aren't the league's most valuable pieces. If they can't be had for our spare parts, so be it. If Jack Z deems it shrewd to spend five million in free-agency for a guy like Washburn before swapping out prospects we'd rather keep, then what can we do? We don't have to like it to respect it. And what exactly are you sending out, Edman? Hot gas and eire. |
| 28. By: Edman on 01-18-2010 20:54:01 And, aside from Harang, they don't show any greater return than signing Washburn, and it doesn't cost you anything but money, to sign him. Harang comes with a healthy price tag. Even if the Reds cover some of his salary, if they traded him, it would be for financial relief. Liriano and Nolasco are at a sell low value right now. Why would either the Twins or the Marlins part with them? They're both relatively cheap. Hense, if you want them, you have to give up something pretty substancial. Florida already has a better option than Lopez. By all indications, Minnesota hasn't given up on Liriano. That leaves Harang. I wouldn't mind him coming to Seattle. But, if making a deal for him means no money to help the offense, is it worth it. I have no problem working out scenarios. But, think about both sides. Proposing trade ideas that purely benefit Seattle but do little for the other team, isn't practical. |
| 29. By: dewey on 01-18-2010 22:00:47 I hear there building a new wing in the hall of fame for Wak and Adair..jesus people it was one year and everything i meen everything fell right.Lets see how it goes this year before we think we have Casey Stengall at the helm can we win a playoff game just one sometime soon? I like the direction we our headed in and i like Jacks moves but im starting to get sick of all this praising and talking lets get to the plaoffs then we will talk.Ok now i expect to get blasted and everyone say how big of a asshole i am but i deal in reality not fantasy! |
| 30. By: shortstop9 on 01-18-2010 22:03:38 Washburn would do well again in Safeco.It would have to be for 1 yr 5mil at the most.I think they should sign Jermaine Dye.He can play LF,RF,1B,DH and still has some pop that could help our lineup.He still hit 27 HR last year,but had two really bad months to end the season.I could see him bounce back strong. |
| 31. By: Lailoken on 01-18-2010 22:07:55 For 1 year & 5 mill? No thanks. I'd rather have Bedard or Wang for less money for part of the season with Fister or Vargas filling in while they're injured. Lots of better options than Washburn still out there in FA. Doug Davis would cost more but is better. Even the old guys like Pedro, Smoltz, & Contreras offer more. As a lefty he may be a perfect fit for Safeco but his knee injury lead to how he pitched for Detroit. He's not very good to begin with as a pitch-to-contact guy & he's only getting older. No guile-hype from me, Washburn is not my kind of veteran. For 3 mill he might be worth it provided the team goes after someone else for the rotation too. In case something happens to one of the top 3 someone worthy should be able to fill-in in a playoff rotation. |
| 32. By: chrisd on 01-18-2010 23:30:18 ESPN just reported Felix and M's have agreed to multi-year deal but no details yet- http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4837939 I can't belief this has happened and it would not if Jack had not made M's winners. |
| 33. By: kyle_mahlstedt on 01-18-2010 23:30:52 MARINERS SIGN FELIX HERNANDEZ TO A MULTI YEAR DEAL!!!! KEITH LAW OF ESPN JUST REPORTED! |
| 34. By: DRWheelock on 01-18-2010 23:57:44 Hey aren't we paying Jason to tell us this stuff kyle? Where are you at Jason? |
| 35. By: JohnMcD on 01-18-2010 23:58:05 Wow this is the beat news! I love Jack Z! |
| 36. By: Shawnuel on 01-19-2010 00:00:17 No details on terms yet.....Keith Law heard this from "a source". 4 years or more would be fab. |
| 37. By: JohnMcD on 01-19-2010 00:06:32 So when are we getting Adrian Gonzalez? Kidding, had to throw that in there! Thank you Jack Z, thank you! |
| 38. By: Lailoken on 01-19-2010 00:16:19 Please be for 6 year! |
| 39. By: ARock on 01-19-2010 00:41:01 Jason, and info on the contract details? |
| 40. By: DRWheelock on 01-19-2010 01:05:37 Heyman stated a few days ago that Seattle & Felix were making progress on a 5-6 year deal. WOW that would be INCREDIBLE! I have to think that Halladay's annual $$$ amount had to get Felix thinking seriously about a longer term & similar $$$'s. This economy is something. BUT the Yanks and BoSox would of opened up their purse strings and gave Felix as much as CC at least! GREAT deal for Seattle! |
| 41. By: DMac33 on 01-19-2010 17:08:18 Back on topic - not that Felix signing isn't a great topic to discuss ... There's no doubt a #3 needs to be added. I'm not sure what to make of Washburn. My gut says that he might be an upgrade over the Fister/French/Vargas options at the back end of the rotation. That's going to help in the regular season. Problem is that it doesn't help you during the postseason - I don't feel overly comfortable with Washburn starting a postseason game - hence why I think I'd lean to "NO" on Washburn. Ultimately, the goal is 1) win the West and 2) win in October. The success of the Mariners in October is going to be based on Felix, Lee, In an ideal world, Sheets is the guy. The money is going to be large if he's got the good stuff he's had in the past. He's also not shown a willingness to want to play in Seattle. I'd pass. Harang is a decent option that I'd be open to depending on what the cost would be to obtain him. I can see him being a decent #3 in October - but I'm not sure that I can sit here and say that I see him as a guy that makes me warm and fuzzy if he's pitching a "must win" kind of game. I don't think Liriano is a realistic option for the reasons Jason has mentioned previously. Plus, he's all risk/reward at this point. Piniero would be an option if the years/money came down - but if it's for 3+ years at the money he wants - no thanks. The two guys I'd focus on would be 1) Nolasco and 2) Bedard. Nolasco has lights-out kind of stuff that can overpower any lineup. He's the perfect #3 guy in the rotation behind Felix/Lee - particularly in October. He's had some struggles - but he's a lower risk option than Liriano. Bedard works because he fits the mold of what Nolasco brings to a #3 spot in the rotation - the kind of guy that can deliver you a lights out game against any lineup. |
| 42. By: shadow_watch on 01-20-2010 01:11:50 I think the M's should consider a straight up swap of Lowe for Sherrill. This would give them far better balance in the pen, and a shutdown lefty which is important in Safeco. The Dodgers would get some salary relief enabling them to go get Pineiro. A combination of Aardsma, Sherrill, and League would be pretty deadly... |
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