Prospect Insider - Weekend Notebook: The Rebuild
Weekend Notebook: The Rebuild

By Jason A. ChurchillBy 12-26-2010

UPDATE: Wanted to add this to supplement the 2012 Free Agent mentions below. It's a a partial list of potential trade targets around the league.

I've been asked a ton the past several weeks whether or not I believe it's a good idea for the Seattle Mariners to go through an actual rebuilding year. I've responded with a resounding "YES" every single time, yet those same inquirers still aren't sure it's the right move.

Most of the readers here at PI and across the blogosphere in Seattle understand, but the best way to explain to those who just aren't convinced is to describe the alternative.

And the best way to do that, is, well, point to the Bill Bavasi regime and the four years the M's tried to "reload" rather than rebuild for a year or two.

Rebuilding simply means the club is not going for the quick fix, and a quick fix doesn't mean the club will not continue to look for impact talent, it just means they won't sacrifice potential future pieces for 1-2 year answers that cost the club significant portion of the payroll.

That seems to be the misnomer, or at least what isn't understood by everyone. It's still under the rebuild scheme if Jack Zduriencik goes out and trades for, say, Tim Lincecum, because Lincecum would be a part of the 2012 and 2013 rosters. But trading Felix Hernandez for him makes no sense.

Trading Dustin Ackley, Nick Franklin, Franklin Gutierrez and Michael Pineda for Lincecum wouldn't make much sense, either. To a large extent, and much of that due to Ichiro's large salary, the Mariners must get major production from their farm system over the next two or three years if they plan on contending. That means Justin Smoak, Ackley, Pineda, Franklin -- probably at least two of them -- have to pan out as average or better regulars.

Possibly the best blueprints for the M's to Xerox are the San Francisco Giants, Atlanta Braves, Texas Rangers -- clubs that have received such production from their young, cheap talent.

The Texas Rangers have gotten such performances from Nelson Cruz, Elvis Andrus, Nefatli Feliz, Ian Kinsler, among others, while the Giants boast the same from Lincecum, Matt Cain, Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey and more.

Atlanta has done this for years, starting back in the 1990s with their pitching staff. Sure, they didn't grow John Smoltz themselves, they got him from Detroit in return for Doyle freakin' Alexander. But he was young and cheap in the Braves' early days of contention, and the club continued to grow such talent as Chipper Jones and Andruw Jones and use them accordingly.

And no, the Seattle Mariners can't wait for Michael Saunders and Adam Moore, and to a lesser extent Gutierrez, to develop into what they think they will be. They all deserve 2011, but beyond that, those positions are fair game to trade acquisitions and free agent signings. Why? Because once these players become not-so-cheap, so to speak, the evaluation process changes dramatically.

To win, and win consistently from year to year without spending $150-200 million on payroll, the young players have to perform in their first three or four years or the GM has to cover that hole with money or a trade, which costs assets and can greatly shorten the organization's potential contention window.

But, again, the Mariners are doing the right thing, and so far, handling it the right way in my opinion. I don't know that I would have guaranteed Miguel Olivo $7 million, but I understand the thought process, and everything else the club has done or refrained from doing this winter has been more than understandable, it's been commendable.

It's not easy for a franchise to admit they are rebuilding, and the Mariners' brass will never admit publicly that they aren't trying to win 'right now.' But the suits, Howard Lincoln and the ownership, are doing the right thing, and probably losing money in the meantime.

But it should pay off in the end with a much more competitive club that may be able to sustain some success for a number of years. So if you're out there wondering why, why not or what the bleep, relax, sit back and watch the young players develop, fail, get traded, and witness true roster construction before your eyes.

Next Year's Free Agents
The M's may be able to spend some real money next winter since the contract of Milton Bradley falls off the books and the club will no longer be on the hook for pitchers throwing sinkers for other teams.

But the biggest reasons why the M's could be players for free agents next winter are as follows:

1. Chance to win the west
It might just make a heck of a lot of sense to add a few pieces and go for the division title. Yes, I said it, the AL West could very well be up for grabs in 2012. It's not going to be easy, but a break here and there and the development of a few kids -- and the lack of such in Arlington, Anaheim and Oakland -- could put the M's in a very opportunistic situation.

2. Window coverage
Signing a player this winter to a long-term year deal at $10-15 million per season is not only difficult to do -- players want to sign for gigantic dollars and have a chance to win -- but it's difficult to do and feel good about it when at least one of those years that player will be paid big money to play for a club without a chance to win. It's like tacking on an eighth year's worth of checks to the Carl Crawford deal but not getting the player's help during that time.

But doing so next offseason might make some sense, depending on what happens during the 2011 schedule. If it looks promising, Smoak has a solid year, Saunders takes a significant step forward, Ackley continues to look like a keeper as he makes his big-league debut and Pineda's slider and change show better than in 2010, we're all going to be pretty darned excited, as will the front office. But that sense of possibility and chance will also trickle out to free agents, as it has worked with the Washington Nationals the past year or so.

Who's available next year?
Prince Fielder is the big-name bat, but he's unlikely to be a fit in Seattle, and certainly will not be a financial fit with Fielder's agent, Scott Boras, certain to look for upwards of $100 million. The Brewers are looking to lock up Rickie Weeks, too, so he's not likely to be a player moving west.

Other free agents that could make sense in Seattle include Jose Reyes (yes, a shortstop; assets are assets, if Reyes looks like a 4-year answer at the position next winter, who cares that Nick Franklin is a year away, get the asset, worry about the fit later), third baseman Aramis Ramirez, outfielder J.D. Drew, starting pitchers Mark Buehrle, Wandy Rodriguez and Edwin Jackson, and tons of relief pitchers, as always.

Coming up...
Chris and I -- and maybe Rick, too -- will have a podcast coming up Monday night. We'll discuss the idea of trading Franklin Gutierrez, possible late-winter free agent targets and the first in-depth conversation about the 2011 Draft.





weekend-notebook:-the-rebuild


Comments
The following 41 comment(s) for this article are shown below:

1.  By: marinerforever on 12-26-2010 03:07:04
why not price fielder the mariners need the slugger to sit in the four hole i dont think there is going to be a huge market for prince i would be a big fan of going after prince

2.  By: rocketdawg31 on 12-26-2010 07:32:12


No, marinerforever.

The M's do need offense- not necessarily a slugger- but yes, of course that is a need and Fielder would provide it right now, that's indisputable.

But you gotta think big picture on Fielder. I'm operating under the idea that you'd like to lock him up long-term.

But I'm telling you right now- it's insane to want him on our team at all when he's poised to try and break somebody's bank in dollars AND years, very soon.

Yes, Fielder's a 4+ WAR bat. Right NOW. But he's 26 right now, IIRC. And at 5'11", he's a Subway salad shy of 300 lbs.

How do you figure this guy's gonna age gracefully and keep putting up premium offensive numbers? I sure don't. By the time he's 30, the odds are very high that his injuries are going to rise in severity and keep mounting in number.

By the time he's 30, he'll be four years in on a likely seven year deal- if guys like Jayson Werth are getting seven years, there's no way Fielder will settle for less. He's a more potent offensive threat than Werth, and Boras will demand- and GET- top dollar for him as he does virtually every other true marquee name in his stable.

Four years in, three to go. On a body probably gaining weight every year, and becoming more and more injury prone. And less and less productive.

And you want us to be the one writing checks for it when his transmission goes kaput? After at least half a decade of bad, short-sighted contracts we've already been dealing with?

Keep in mind we'd absolutely be on the financial hook for all of those likely "injured, bad years". Once he signs his big deal, wherever that is? He'll be virtually untradeable.

Fielder's like an old Jaguar E-Type, to use a car reference. An E-Type looks so bloody good. It drives so well at first, and you get lulled into thinking it'll be like that forever.

But E-Types break down if you LOOK at them funny. And they cost another small fortune in order to work on. And notoriously never the same once they've been damaged enough.

Let's think genetics, too. Remember his father? His father was out of the game by what, age 34? And his father was a better athlete, if not a better hitter.

Prince Fielder doesn't suit what we need, long-term. At all. He MIGHT suit us production-wise in the short-term....but you'd have to give up a king's ransom in prospects for one year of a Prince's premium stats.

Not I, said the fly.

And every single big move I've seen Jack Z. make seems more directed to the long-term.

I will be severely unhappy if I see Prince Fielder putting on Mariner blue.



3.  By: jgstecker on 12-26-2010 07:59:02
Fielder and Reyes are about the only intriguing players on the market next year, at least as far as long-term answers go. Its not the best timing for having a lot of spare change to throw around.

I wouldn't be opposed to paying Fielder to come here to DH. There's a very real chance that DH is one of the few holes left for us to address after 2011. But the Yankees and Red Sox will also be looking for a new DH, with the Yankess particularly motivated to make a splash.

Reyes would be fun in Seattle, but again there'll be a lot of competition (Philly, Dodgers, Cardinals, Orioles)and we sort of already have three leadoff hitters.

A lot can happen in the next two years, but the M's would be wise to look at one-year solutions again and save payroll room for after 2012 when the starting pitching market may potentially be flooded with TOR pitching. Between Hamels, Liriano, Danks, Marcum, Billingsley, J. Sanchez, Greinke, Cain, and Colby Lewis there are going to be a few names out there worth throwing a lot of money at.

4.  By: on 12-26-2010 11:39:57
Great notion, JAC. Wouldn't it be great if fans everywhere got onboard with the rebuild and could cheer for the same things? Imagine.

Stupid question for you guys about the pronunciation of a few names:

Carlos Triunfel: Trin-fell, troon-fell, Trun-fell, or does it end with "full"?

Michael Pineda: Pin-ay-duh, pin-yay-duh, pin-ee-duh?

Maruicio Robles: Robe-les, Rob-els, Robb-les, Robb-els?

Sad as it sounds, I've never been able to pronounce these guys' names with confidence. Thanks for any insight!

5.  By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-26-2010 12:54:17
Triunfel: Tree-uhn-fell. You'll hear just about EVERYONE saying Tru-in-fell, bit that is incorrect. EVERYONE includes M's personnel, PA announcers, other players, managers, etc.

Pineda: Pin-ay-duh. There is no tilde'd up "n" like in Pineiro.

Robles: Robe-lace (short second syllable as in Torres)





6.  By: Missthosepilots on 12-26-2010 15:19:57
Steve Philips (recent recommendation for each club)aside, thank you Jason. Fielder makes no sense. Enough with the short-term thinking!

7.  By: Adam B. on 12-26-2010 15:41:46
I would much prefer the M's look at a "quasi-DH" like a Carlos Beltran or the aforementioned J.D. Drew.

It would shore up the corner outfield spots (Ichiro isn't getting any younger, and there's no guarantee that LF isn't going to be a gaping hole...) while still giving the M's a potent bat and leaving some budget space to address other roster issues.



8.  By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-26-2010 16:10:15
The problem with Fielder is that he's not going to sign at the winter meetings. He's going to drag it out until he gets 100 mil or well beyond Christmas, which, if you are the M's, you really can't afford to do. You have to be able to get a bat and can't wait for one guy unless your backup plan is already under contract.

9.  By: Missthosepilots on 12-26-2010 16:19:29
Jason, I am sure you saw that Philips advised to get Fielder at 1st and Dunn to DH. Never answered Smoak and such. Good points. And looking forward to your comments in '11 ahead! Thanks.

10.  By: Timberwolf on 12-26-2010 18:21:07
Between Scot Boras and all the extra weight he is carrying, I would not be comfortable tieing up the team's financial future for Prince Fielder. Every team has to plan and recruit for their park, Safeco dictates that you prefer players with plus speed and defense.



11.  By: FatBat on 12-26-2010 20:35:27
The Mariners just need to flat out have a good year from there prospects, because the way i see it the best free agents are as follows 1b Fielder, Puljols, Gonzalez. We have smoak. 2B Cano (staying in NY!) A. Hill and Brandon Phillips (would be nice), but we have Ackley. So you want to upgrade thats offensive we have no choice but to look at the outfield. As Jason said there is J.D. Drew, nice bat, would be my, first choice but after him you got Bautista, swisher so on and so forth. We will have money but there is no impact bat...or Bats! that make a lot of sense. Again we need our prospects to improve and make trades if we are going to do much next year. There are plenty of pitchers to choose from but the bats that we can actualy use and or need are at possitions we have blocked. Just from my point of view it just looks like there isnt much out there. but we will see.

12.  By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-26-2010 21:36:38
Timberwolf,

I certainly agree that Fielder's conditioning and weight issues are a major concern as he ages, but the idea that going after players with speed and defense... they have enough of that. Ichiro, Figgins, the SS position, Gutierrez... they need bats. If Fielder would agree to DH and wants more of an Adam Dunn contract, I would, and imagine the M's would also, be amenable to bringing in Fielder.

His talents certainly fit. The problem is money, he's going to hold out for nine figures and even if he doesn't get it from anyone he will wait out the market so long that the M's probably will have moved on to another player by then.

Second, he has to agree to be a DH and who knows whether that is something he'd do. I imagine if Seattle were the ones offering 100 mil, he'd offer to catch or pitch, but since that isn't happening... yeah.

In the end, the M's have to get something from their prospects, and something significant. Free agency won't ve ignored by any means but it won't be the best way for them to acquire star talent.

13.  By: Timberwolf on 12-26-2010 23:27:26
I did not mean to suggest that we recruit a team full of Chone Figginses. Players with average speed and defense aren't a problem in Safeco, but guys who are way below average don't really fit, especially if they are paid humongous salaries. If a guy like 30-something Edgar Martinez shows up, and really wants to play here, of course we have a spot.The point I was attempting to make was that If they are going to bet the farm on someone, I'd rather have somebody whose biology and financials project better than Prince Fielder.

14.  By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-26-2010 23:59:34
Again, for Fielder, it's all about years and dollars, and convincing him to DH. I don't care that he's fat. I don't care that he profiles as one who might be out of baseball before he's old enough to run for president. I care that he might eat his way out of the middle of the order while under contract.

If you're signing a DH, who cares if he can run really -- and I know that's not something anyone here needed me or anyone else to explain to them. Because if he could, he probably wouldn't need to be a DH. So while preferring better athletes who aren't liabilities on the bases or in the field, beggars can't be choosers. Give me Fielder for Dunn's contract next winter and I'll worry about the glove of a DH another day.

There's no reason to believe Fielder will be done before he's 33 or 34, so his physical makeup is a non issue for me outside the DH thing.

I think Fielder fits on paper. Today. As well as anyone else out there that might realistically be available or that was available this winter. Maybe even better than Carl Crawford, who is a better player, but doesn't give the Mariners what they lack the most.

There is also the thought that there are almost always DH types on the free agent market, however, and spending $15 million per year on one isn't wise.



15.  By: jgstecker on 12-27-2010 09:02:19
Fielder will be too expensive next offseason, BUT if Seattle stays close in the West this year, he would be a likely trade target. The Brewers will almost certainly try to move him, but (barring injury) there won't be many suitors. Most contending teams have 1B/DH locked up for 2011 so the competition may not be that high for his services. If his price tag comes down to a couple of our B type prospects in AA (Triunfel, Chavez, Poythress, Robles, Hensley) he'd be worth pursuing.



16.  By: FelixElRey on 12-27-2010 10:28:31
Given the details of Webb's contract, do you feel like they guaranteed too much money? Especially since we have Bedard, are you glad we didn't pursue Webb?

17.  By: Rudolf on 12-27-2010 11:11:48
Thanks for the pronunciation help, Jason.

One of the nice things about Michael Pineda is that if he has a great 2011 season we could conceivably trade him for a young impact bat straight up, (or close to it), ala Matt Garza for Delmon Young. I've never understood why we would shop him now when his report card is incomplete. Even if he struggles a little bit in the majors this year he won't lose much luster, if any at all. Let him succeed and he becomes a tremendous asset teams will covet.

18.  By: FelixElRey on 12-27-2010 11:34:51
I think the argument is that when I guy has such a huge improvement year that his stock couldn't be any higher. (like franklin after last year or pineda this year) Obviously, when you're talking prospects, the only way for them to further improve their stock is to have that same success in the majors, but that is obviously a huge step to take, and if they have that success at that level, then why trade them?

It's obviously a really tough decision because when they are so young, you like to think of their "breakout year" as them turning a corner instead a fluke, so you need to sell high.

With Pineda, I think if you want to trade him, this is the best time. The only way his stock rises is if he succeeds next year. If that happens, I'd consider him nearly untouchable.

19.  By: on 12-27-2010 12:49:21
I understand your POV, FelixElRey, but I don't agree with it in Pineda's case.

Pineda has shown remarkable consistency throughout his minor league career. Last year he grew substantially larger, which helped him gain velocity and transformed him into a behemoth. Unforseen, perhaps, but not necessarily the kind of huge improvement that indicates he should be sold high.

I believe selling high is more often reserved for guys who suddenly progress in surprising fashion, or whom reach their perceived peak earlier than expected. Pineda's peak is on the horizon. His gains were the result of physical development, not "having something click", per say. With his control and velocity, he only needs nominal improvement on his secondary pitches to become a potential All*Star in the bigs.

As an unproven minor leaguer with promise, Pineda represents only a portion of a stud major league hitter's value, and therefore must be packaged with others in trade in order to obtain said hitter. This seems a like gross undervaluing of Pineda, considering his relative close proximity to the majors. With a solid 2011 performance in MLB-- or even AAA-- Pineda becomes much more valuable, (like Tommy Hanson), especially if he dominates for a stretch, ( which is within the realm of possibility).

If Pineda has a great 2011, we would be inclined to keep him, of course. But with the current state of the offense, and all this Fielder / lack of free agent bats talk in this thread, I felt it worth propounding that Pineda would be a heckuva chip to peddle for a young, proven bat in the next year or two. He would certainly fetch more than if we were to scoot him off now out of fear that he's going to break down or fail to get any better. It's worth the risk of holding out IMO.

20.  By: maqman on 12-27-2010 13:02:38
I'm of the same opinion as rocketdawg31 in comment #2 above. Fielder is just a bad idea under any realistic scenario. Lets find out some more about what we have on the farm and then shop to fill in the blanks when we have the money.

21.  By: baseballman on 12-27-2010 13:30:47
I dont see how anyone could be against Fielder at DH for a Dunn-type contract. Doesnt make sense to not be all for that kind of deal. Do you all really want to put all that pressure on Smoak to be our only MOTO bat? I dont...having Fielder to protect Smoak is an awesome scenario for the Ms.

Who else would you have play DH for the Ms?

22.  By: rocketdawg31 on 12-27-2010 16:24:12


Baseballman (#21)-

I wouldn't be completely against the idea of Fielder as our DH. Except for: A. It's really debatable how much he's gonna want to be a DH at the ripe old age of 26-27. And B. We've just signed a DH-type for this year in Jack Cust, who probably has no business owning any kind of glove at any position. And C. What Dunn deal are we talking about?

He's not gonna take anything less than seven years, nine figures in a long-term deal.

Any other scenario- add him this year, let him walk in '12- means we only have him for 2011. When our chances of contending are dubious at very best.

And pay a real significant price in prospects for the privilege. The Brewers are not in the hands of idiots. No thanks.

Fielder is neither here nor there for us. Pass.

23.  By: StandinPat on 12-27-2010 16:30:28
Fielder would be a great choice for DH in a vacuum, but unfortunately he's gonna require too much money and too many years. Do you really want to spend close to $20 mil on a DH when he's quite possibly only 15-20 runs better than the DH you just signed for $2.5?

24.  By: DRWheelock on 12-27-2010 17:17:26
All this Fielder 'trade' talk is kind of rediculous...you all realize what the Brewers did this offseason right?!

They are in 'Win Now' mode, and trading Fielder now is NOT in the Brewers plans. The ONLY way they trade him this year is by the trading deadline "if" they are out of the playoff race...if not then they keep him and take the draft picks he will bring to them.

With the biggest contenders not needing 1B next offseason, I think $20M/year for Fielder will be high. I say he will go for $15/yr and $18M max, but the team will have to step up and give him at least a 6-7 year deal though. I see 7 years, which at $15M will push his contract to $105M. As an Mariner fan I would have to say for $15M to be a 1B/DH option for us...the Z Man will have to pull the trigger on that one next offseason. Cards have Pujols they will attempt to hold onto, Yanks have Tex, and BoSox now have A-Gone. The Dodgers and Angels "could" be in play for spending money on Fielder and replacing their 1B guy next year.

25.  By: TheDudeAbides on 12-28-2010 08:25:32
As we are in the midst of possibly the greatest revolution in history, the age of digitalization, no one is benefiting more than 24/7 sports analysis. Funny thing, but MLB and the NFL have taken advantage more than anyone else. 10 years ago, even five years ago did anyone think a 24 MLB channel would put up the ratings they have? Basketball used to be king, but they have priced themselves out of the new era, and there is no fun offseason talk like what is taking place with MLB and the NFL, as it comes to the draft.

Baseball is growing immensely through the minor leagues, the draft, winter meetings and the prospects. No site in any sports has gained the traction MLBTradeRumors has in the past three years. So where does this all fit into the equation? Not only are fans becoming enthralled in their teams big league team, but also their Minor League System. We don't have that in the NFL or NBA as the NCAA has their own brand. So, I believe we are now seeing teams shell out the big bucks for players in free agency and hold onto their young talent. Ten years ago, the top ten inane organization didn't matter, now a top 20 or top 30 prospect is valuable as selling point to fans and teams alike. I think we are entering a new era in baseball in large part due to the age of digitalization.

I feel Jack understands this is the case, and he will sit back and wait and see who can hold down a position moving forward, and who cannot. Depending on our performance this year, specifically with our younger players, he will or will not spend next year. I see JZ having an uncapped payroll in the next three years and he can decide when to spend it. If he wants to go cheap again next year and put that towards 2013, so be it. It is not hard to imagine the Mariners being a player for Prince after the season. We will have the payroll flexibility to sign a huge bat without decimating our club.

Good day all!

26.  By: candasharp on 12-28-2010 14:18:22
Nothing is going to happen with Prince Fielder anytime soon if ever so let's refocus on players who could help us this year.

Thoughts on Chris Capuano?

27.  By: rocketdawg31 on 12-28-2010 14:27:49


Capuano= moderate risk, moderate reward. When healthy, the kind of pitcher that can benefit from 17 starts at Safeco.

Certainly worth a signing if Bedard is.

28.  By: DRWheelock on 12-28-2010 16:07:17
Jason,

I wanted to run this by you on your thoughts.

Yes we signed Jack Cust to be our DH. Is he really that 'bad' to play in LF periodically?! The reason I ask this is that the DH market is to our advantage right now, and I'd LOVE to add VLAD to our DH slot too, before Texas gets him. Even with a 2nd half falloff he still batted in 2010 a 300 BA with 29 HRs. He's been a Mariner killer, and is one of 'few' RHBs that just slaughters us at Safeco Field, so park factors revolving around VLAD would be justifiable in signing him. Texas paid $5M last year, and opt out of his 2011 $9M option. Texas is attempting to either get Beltre for 3B and move Young to DH, or sign VLAD for less than $5M.

Plus there is still enough power hitting DHs out there with Thome, and others. VLAD last year, even with his decline in the 2nd half was still 2.6 WAR and he was valued at $10.3M based on FanGraph. I think he'd be a steal for < $5M.

I know VLAD looked HORRIBLE in the WS in RF this year, but he still had a 2.7 UZR/150. I checked out Cust in LF too, and he's not "ugly" in LF. They both are NO Carl Crawford, but I think by platooning Cust/Vlad in DH/LF with Saunders as a late inning defensive replacement in lead situations would fit right into our budget for 2011 and give us the BIGGEST bang in offense that we can get.

I wanted Jack Z to sign VLAD last offseason, instead of Griffey, and then Texas landed him instead.

Thoughts?!

29.  By: Mackie on 12-28-2010 16:08:17
With the hitting likely to still be fairly anemic next year (it should be better but could still be pretty bad), I have no problem with boosting the rotation in order to keep the team in more ball games. Barring injury, Felix looks like the only certainty in the rotation. They need hitting, but I think they ought to look to improve the quality of the team wherever they can as long as they aren't blocking kids.

Pineda seems to be the only one who might be blocked in the rotation for next year. Thus I would advocate signing at least one of Francis and Capuano, if not both.

Assume Hernandez, Vargas and Fister will be in the rotation in 2011. Add Capuano and/or Francis (or Pineda if he makes the team in spring training) and it would give the team a rotation that would not necessarily be outstanding, but could be. It could at least be *decent*.

As it is now, the M's are counting on Vargas, Fister, Pineda, Bedard, French and Pauley to compete for the 2-5 spots. While that might not necessarily be horrible, it doesn't necessarily suggest a very good rotation. Who knows if Fister and Vargas can repeat last year's performances, or if Bedard will even pitch?

If some of these risk/reward signings should work out (Bedard, Capuano/Francis/???), then great. Create more competition in spring training, have some guys who can be stashed in AAA as insurance policies, and use the SP depth to help provide the team with more trade chips for some hitting around trade deadline time or earlier. If such signings did not work out? At least the team would have made the effort to improve the rotation.

30.  By: DRWheelock on 12-28-2010 16:13:00
We haven't had this much production from DH since Edgar left even without VLAD, but we need that one extra power bat behind Cust and VLAD would be pretty cheap versus the offensive reward:

RF Ichiro
3B Figgins
DH/LF Cust
DH/LF VLAD
1B Smoak
CF Gutz
2B Ackley/Ryan
SS Wilson/Ryan
C Olivo/Moore


31.  By: Edman on 12-28-2010 16:33:22
Vlad = Overpaying

With Texas in the hunt for a DH, Vlad in the twilight of his career, and the potential to make the playoffs with Texas, why would he want to come to Seattle?

Only way I see that happening is if he has no other alternative. Right now, he does.

32.  By: DRWheelock on 12-28-2010 16:46:42
I just read over at MLBTradeRumors that Texas is kicking the tires on Glaus as a DH. And if Texas ends up with Beltre then Young goes either to DH or 1B, and Texas will be over budget to give any money to VLAD then, and they still may be trying to land another SP too with a limited budget in Texas.

VLAD for what Texas paid in 2010 ($5M) or less is a steal for the offense he brings to the plate for us.

33.  By: jgstecker on 12-28-2010 17:15:45
Why is Vlad spelled in ALL CAPS?

34.  By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-28-2010 17:23:55
Vlad sucks, isn't a fit. Did you watch him after June until the 40-man rosters expanded? He was AWFUL, in ALL CAPS.

No thanks.

On Cust, no, he can't play left field, especially at Safeco. Not a good idea.

And what good would it really do to sign Jim Thome for $8 million? He could bomb out and have no trade value, making the entire idea a waste of critical payroll space.

And yes, you'd have to pay him at least $8 mil to get him, maybe more.

35.  By: Timberwolf on 12-28-2010 17:26:05
VLAD is in all caps because he is a big enough star to be known by one name, and to differentiate him from Vlad the Impaler, a Transylvanian despot who was the inspiration and role model for Dracula.

If VLAD were willing to sign a one year cheap contract like he did in Texas last year, sure. I just don't see a guy like VLAD signing onto a rebuilding team at this stage of his career. If he is available cheap the Yankees will grab him as an insurance policy.

36.  By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-28-2010 17:39:21
But nobody has ever consistently typed ICHIRO here at PI and the dude only has ONE name.

So out the door goes that theory.

37.  By: dewey on 12-28-2010 18:01:55
I happened to be at a game in Portland when Cust was playing LF its a few years back but something happened ive never seen it was a day game no sun no lights a guy hit a linedrive to him in LF and he missed it with his glove and it hit him dead in the chest so i think Jason is right he is Brutal out there.Vlad doesnt suck name me one Mariner who has put up those numbers in the last 3 years ? Is he on the decline yes but he is still better then alot of options including Cust at DH.The one question i have is the headines The Rebuild? To this day no Mariner brass has said this and if thats there thoughts and thats what there gonna do they dont need to announce it but they better extend Jack now! I think he may have learned as Theo Epstein did last year all of this run prevention stuff was crap you have to score runs to play in the A.L.!

38.  By: DRWheelock on 12-28-2010 19:33:12
So Jason you say Vlad sucks but yet even in the 2nd half of the year when his suppose horrible 2nd half was better than all but a few Mariner numbers. In reality Vlad only had 1 bad month in July...


Vlad Sept/Oct numbers:

.351 OBP
.491 SLG
.841 OPS

He only had a bad July with a 210 BA and 3 HRs in July, despite that he averaged above a 300 BA hitter and ended with 29 HRs all other months.

The only other two Mariner players with anywhere ‘near’ these numbers in Sept/Oct were:

Smoak Sept/Oct Numbers:

.340 BA
.421 OBP
.580 SLG
1.001 OPS

Branyan Sept/Oct Numbers:

.231 BA
.305 OBP
.538 SLG
.844 OPS

Yes Vlad is declining in the field, and was horrible defensively in RF during the WS, but even his UZR/150 when he did play the field was better than a number of Mariner players last year. Yes he's aging, and he had a pulled muscle in his chest that affected him for 1.5 years a couple years ago...but he is far from 'sucking'.

39.  By: StandinPat on 12-28-2010 19:36:14
Yes Dewey, because the Giants won the World Series behind their juggernaut offense.

People need to lose the "we need offense" tunnel vision. Yes, the offense needs to be better, but if it's at the expense of other parts of your game, then you just wasted resources without actually improving.

On the ridiculous idea of adding Vlad, he's broken down and solely a DH at this point. If you put him in the field, you risk injuring him and having an $8 mil bench warmer. So that put's Cust as your everyday LF. Cust has a career -22.3 UZR/150. Saunders, whom he'd be replacing, has a career 6.4 UZR/150 and is more likely to be better in the future, while Cust is likely to be worse. That's roughly 25-30 more runs you'd be giving up by making that move, meaning if Vlad's bat would have to be worth 25-30 runs more than Saunders for that move to just break even. For the record, if Vlad put up as good of a line as he did last year, unlikely, and Saunders didn't improve at all, also unlikely, Vlad would be worth just over 30 runs more.

So lets review, best case scenario you get a marginal overall improvement of say 3-5 runs, while making your team considerably older, your roster less flexible, and hamstringing this years budget. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.

40.  By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-28-2010 19:39:33
Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You're wrong about Vlad only having one bad month -- his combined OBP in July and August was .289. That's two, eight, nine. .282 in July, .296 in August. Horrific, not just bad, but terrible, god awful.

Then, after he beat around mediocre pitching in September, he was eaten alive in the postseason.

He's no longer a legit everyday option on a contending team.

You're also wrong with the analysis itself. Comparing someone's numbers to the M's is the single worst way to judge performance OF ALL TIME. In ALL CAPS.

Happy New Year.

41.  By: TheDudeAbides on 12-29-2010 01:10:35
I would almost say the defensive liability in LF with Cust/Vlad split would be so bad their combined WAR would be less than Langerhans. Cust made two horrific errors last year at Safeco and that is also not mentioning the balls he flat out misses. The Rangers really saw how bad it could hurt you playing Vlad in the field in game 1 of the World Series. I was sitting there, ten feet from him when he booted the ball twice. It actually hurt me to watch it, as a San Francisco fan (my NL team, but nothing close to my love for the Mariners).

Also, look where Vlad played and whom he was protected by in the order. Ok, Ok not to start a new brew-ha-ha, but I believe hitting with the 3-4-5 Texas runs out there plays a big difference. Some people, like Cameron, have argued the is no such thing as protection, and I get the basis, but I have witnessed it on my own as a pitcher, and it changes the game, period. I do think part of Figgins struggles were not having anyone worth a damn behind him in the order. Big difference when he was with LAA and the patient bats with power and ability behind him allowed him to see better pitches to hit. When Branyon came in, he at least had someone, but God our 3 hitter was horrifically bad.

So, I got off topic. My bad. Long day here for the Dude, and as the DUDE, no caps for Vlad, Chuck Norris maybe.

Remember this, why doesn't Chuck Norris doesn't wear condoms? Chuck Norris doesn't need protection. Nor does he need caps as well!

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