| By Chris Crawford |  | By 12-09-2010 |
UPDATE 12:51 PM: John Hickey is reporting that the M's have offered OF Laynce Nix a contract. Nix is an above-average fielder with some pop, basically a better Ryan Langerhans. Would be a nice addition to the club, depending of course on terms.
UPDATE 12:38 PM: The M's plans at catcher with Olivo
UPDATE 11:18 AM: Jon Morosi is reporting that Miguel Olivo has agreed to terms with Seattle on a 2 year, $7 million dollar contract with an option for 2013. For those curious about why Olivo and not Gregg Zaun -- Zaun apparently has no desire to sign with a rebuilding team -- unless he gets two years gauaranteed -- and thus was never an option.
UDPATE 10:37 AM: The M's lost just one player int he Rule 5 Draft and it was in the minor league phase. Outfielder Jose Rivero was tabbed by the Arizona Diamondbacks in the Triple-A phase.
Rivero is considered an organizational player and not a big-league prospect.
Two former Mariners farmhands were taken in the MiLB portion -- catcher Travis Scott, who started last spring with the M's but was released, and right-hander Nathan Adcock, who was traded to Pittsburgh with Jeff Clement, Brett Lorin and Aaron Pribanic in return for Ian Snell and Jack Wilson.
- Jason A. Churchill
UDPATE 8:33 AM: Subscribers can check out the scouting report on Jose Flores right here.
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UPDATE 6:31 AM: The M's selected Jose Flores of the Cleveland Indians in the Major-League portion of the Rule V draft. Flores, a right-handed reliever, spent last year in Lake County -- Cleveland's A-league affiliate. He struck out 51 batters in 42 innings with a 2.14 ERA while giving up 35 hits and walking just seven batters. GM Jack Zduriencik said that Seattle might take someone who was more upside than Major League ready, and this seems like a pretty clear cut case. Jason will have a scouting report on Flores ASAP.
The last day of the winter meetings generally doesn't usually is pretty slow, but today -- will probably be the same thing.
Wednesday was a busy day, however, so with the amount of progress Seattle made yesterday you could see moer of the same today.
Subscribers can get all the latest information here, including a scouting report on who the M's take in today's rule V draft.
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Comments
The following 72 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: Edman on 12-09-2010 09:55:10 Great pick for the future of the franchise. A reliever is easier to hide on the roster than most positions. Those kind of numbers are impressive in nearly any league. Honestly, could the kid do worse than Sean White did this past season? Give him a year on the roster, and see how he does. Use him in non-critical situations and if needed send him to the minors next year to finish his development. The only obstacle would be if the starters can't go deep into games and/or the entire bullpen sucked, and he got forced into games. I look forward to finding out more about him. |
| 2. By: STEVEV on 12-09-2010 10:41:42 Was I mistaken? For some reason I was under the impression that single-A players taken in the Rule V only had to stay on the AAA roster all year. AA and AAA players taken had to stay on the Major League roster. Or did Seattle take a single-A player in the AAA portion of the draft? |
| 3. By: STEVEV on 12-09-2010 10:45:33 My bad. After posting I realized Jason might have something on that in the "Primer" section, and sure enough he did. I take it then, that Flores must have been choosen in the Major League portion of the draft. Sorry. |
| 4. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-09-2010 11:14:22 He was, Steve, you are correct. if he was taken in the lower portions, it works just the way you were saying. |
| 5. By: CyFelix on 12-09-2010 12:13:31 Should be a guy we can keep then send him to Tacoma depending on how he does this year. 50 innings shouldn't kill him, nor should it kill us. An upgrade over Sean White, well anyone was an upgrade over him. |
| 6. By: PositivePaul on 12-09-2010 12:20:46 Definitely sounds like he'd be no worse than the likes of guys like Sean White, Rick White, John Parrish, Jake Woods... A kid who throws strikes in the bullpen can be useful for an inning no matter how old he is or what level he's coming up from. But the Rule 5 picks tend to flame out more than normal draft picks, so I'm not expecting much. |
| 7. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 12:37:18 I like going after someone with more potential. Like everyone is saying, Id probably rather him than Sean White next year, haha. Sounds like he could become a very good reliever, smart move with no downside by Jack Z. |
| 8. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 12:40:34 Twins sayin Slowey may be available if they re-sign Pavano. Is he someone the Ms might look into getting? Hes a flyball guy who could fit in Safeco quite well |
| 9. By: Mackie on 12-09-2010 12:50:40 Jason or anyone else here, Ian Snell was mentioned above. According to Cot's, he made $4.25 million last year (ugh). Is (or was) there a club option to be exercised on Snell for 2011? It looks like the contract included a club option for $6.75 million for next season. Surely they have cut Snell loose, right? What is his current situation? They probably have let him go, and it is probably old news, but I don't recall having read anything about it. I'm not hoping or advocating they bring him back... Just wondering about what's up. |
| 10. By: short on 12-09-2010 12:55:40 I hope you'll excuse the rosterbation, but it occurs to me that with the Crawford signing, the Red Sox don't need Jacoby Ellsbury very badly. What they need is some good right-handed pitching. Would Ellsbury for Pineda be a good trade for us? We could toss in Saunders and ask for another prospect to even things out as well. |
| 11. By: Rick Randall on 12-09-2010 13:01:08 #9 - Snell is a FA. #10 - I am open to the idea of trading Pineda, but IMO, Ellsbury isn't worth Pineda, let alone Pineda +. He's also penciled in to be the CF in Boston now. |
| 12. By: Mackie on 12-09-2010 13:05:12 I have wondered about this also, how the addition of impact players on certain ballclubs might make for changes in who those teams might make available, and if this creates new potential trade targets for the Mariners. I was thinking of this because last season it seems like the Mariners made some significant moves not during, but after the Winter Meetings once some general dust had settled. |
| 13. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-09-2010 13:05:25 Mackie, Snell is a free agent. Houston has expressed interest. short, I wrote about that this morning at ESPN... Boston has taken calls on Cameron already, but Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com says they are more likely to hang onto both into spring training at least, since both are injury prone and the only two CFs on their 40-man. baseballman, Slowey could fit to some level, but he'll make some money starting now -- arby eligible for the first time this winter -- and isn't going to be cheap. The Twins may or may not get Carl Pavano back, and if they don't, the price goes way up or Slowey becomes unavailable. Not sure he's a fit if it costs you Saunders, for example. |
| 14. By: short on 12-09-2010 13:16:03 I did a little poking around the interwebs and it looks like Ellsbury is the new starting CF and Cameron will be the bench RH OF -- and important role with an all-lefty outfield. I guess we'll see this year if Saunders can contribute. He strikes me as a guy with talent and I'd hate for him to be the next Ibanez or Choo that we let go too soon. But if we can get a player in left with a record of producing, it would help make up for testing youngsters at 1B, 2B and C. |
| 15. By: short on 12-09-2010 13:21:03 Hey, ProspectInsider just twote: "I have a feeling Ichiro is going to play fewer than 150 games in 2011." Don't jinx Ichiro, man! What makes you think this is the case? |
| 16. By: AntsInIn on 12-09-2010 13:22:18 There has to be another shoe that's going to drop and make this make sense, right? Right?! Somebody hold me. |
| 17. By: krob4mvp on 12-09-2010 13:47:27 Miguel Olivo signing for 2yrs just plain awful! I literally just got sick to my stomach when I saw this was confirmed. This completely contradicts Eric Wedge's statement of giving a young player a chance to prove his worth. Every formidable prospect should get two years or an equivalent of two years in at-bats to prove if he can hit major league pitching...this is bull sh*t!!!! |
| 18. By: banton on 12-09-2010 13:57:57 I have to believe that picking up Olivo is part of the strategy for a multi-team trade deal. Someone else wanted him but could not sign him. We are picking him up to include in a sign and trade deal. |
| 19. By: jgstecker on 12-09-2010 13:58:48 Moore should get plenty of chances to show his worth as the #2 catcher. Unless he's traded. But I don't see him having a ton of value right now. It's not a great deal, but it's not nearly as bad as the Figgins, Wilson, or Bradley deals Jack pulled last year. Honestly, Branyan is the only decent open-market signing Jack has managed in his tenure (thoiugh Cust probably will pan out), so its a little unrealistic to expect him to all of a sudden start making great decisions when it comes to spending money. |
| 20. By: banton on 12-09-2010 13:58:59 Or, it may be that Moore is going bye-bye in a trade. |
| 21. By: jgstecker on 12-09-2010 14:00:14 Olivo can't be traded until May 15th at the earliest. |
| 22. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 14:00:49 RE 19: really, bradley? no |
| 23. By: StandinPat on 12-09-2010 14:06:21 #17 How exactly does this contradict Wedge's statement? Because of one signing? So if Smoak, Ackley, Saunders, Pineda and Cortes all get substantial playing time on with the big league club, then the M's were lying about giving youngsters a chance because Moore didn't start 100+ games? Give me a break. Maybe they don't believe that strongly in Moore, or maybe they still don't think he's ready to catch more than 50-60 games. I really don't know. But I do know 2/7, while not cheap, isn't exorbitant either. They could still move Olivo sometime this year or next, or simply give him the reins for the next two years as he's a decent all around C. |
| 24. By: jgstecker on 12-09-2010 14:07:20 Carlos Silva's 2011 salary = $11.5 million Milton Bradley's 2001 salary = $13.3 million + the M's are sending $5.5 to cover Silva's 2011 salary for a total of $18.8 million. Jack is paying the Cubs $7.3 million to let us release Milton Braldey this year. That's two years of Miguel Olivo. Bad, bad, bad, bad decision. |
| 25. By: short on 12-09-2010 14:09:17 Adam Moore's numbers last year, among our young prospects, were the least likely to project out to success in the majors, IMO. He just didn't exhibit good pitch recognition skills in AAA or the majors. In 141 minor league PA's he walked seven times. His pro career walk rate is 3.3%. Saunders, for comparison, has run about a 9% walk rate during his pro career. If Moore was showing promise as a defensive catcher I think they'd give him another shot, but his passed ball rate was only slightly better than Rob Johnson's (7 vs. 9 in a similar number of innings). I just don't think we're losing anything by getting a veteran catcher. Olivo had 10 passed balls in roughly twice the innings as Johnson or Moore, btw. Not that great, but a little better. |
| 26. By: shemberry on 12-09-2010 14:09:28 The more I think about this Olivo deal the less bothered I am by it. I don't know that there were many better options out there for this year or next. I don't love it, but this move won't make or break the Seattle Mariners. |
| 27. By: Rick Randall on 12-09-2010 14:10:47 I don't think the rest of PI echos my thoughts on Moore (who I used to be SO high on), but like I wrote on my blog at the beginning of last month before I came here to PI: Moore...hasn't shown much of anything at the big league level. He hasn't hit for any sustained amount of time, and he (like all of our young catchers of late) still has a propensity for dropping pitches and getting charged with passed balls. The bat is the big issue, though. He only pulled the ball in 19 of his plate appearances last season - that is troubling. The high strikeout rate (nearly 29% in his 242 career PA) is troubling. The lack of plate discipline (3.3% walk rate in his career) is troubling. And unlike Saunders, Adam Moore isn't that young: he will be 27 next May. Fact is, Olivo will likely get us between 4 and 6 WAR over the next 2 seasons (assuming he stays here) for $7m. He also helps with lineup construction problems which have always dictated that the M's C hit 8th. Minimal investment. Maybe not the best place to make that investment, but still minimal investment with a potentially good return. |
| 28. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 14:14:54 jg, stop acting like a monday morning QB. silva was a sunk cost. at the time it was a good trade. basically dropped silva and signed bradley for a minimal amount. LAST YEAR it didnt work out, but it was worth the gamble. stop acting like you knew what would happen. it wasnt a bad deal |
| 29. By: subterranean on 12-09-2010 14:18:04 Sorry, I don't see where you are getting 4-6 WAR? Based off of one year in KC where he had the only positive value with the bat in his career (per Fangraphs) or the two years in Colorado, in which he posted significant home/road splits? I think the spray chart they posted over at ussmariner is proof positive that Olivo's "power" isn't going to translate at Safeco. I think we are looking at something closer to replacement level than 4-6 WAR. |
| 30. By: jgstecker on 12-09-2010 14:29:46 Since when is it considered bad form for a fan to play Monday Morning QB? And on a blog forum no less! Retroactively analyzing a trade or contract is a perfectly legitimate way to analyze a GM. It was a bad deal and even if Olivo never plays an inning in Seattle it will be a worse deal than the Olivo contract. |
| 31. By: Madison Mariner on 12-09-2010 14:30:34 "Jason or anyone else here, Ian Snell was mentioned above. According to Cot's, he made $4.25 million last year (ugh). Is (or was) there a club option to be exercised on Snell for 2011? It looks like the contract included a club option for $6.75 million for next season. Surely they have cut Snell loose, right? What is his current situation? They probably have let him go, and it is probably old news, but I don't recall having read anything about it." Yeah, as Jason and Rick mentioned, he became a free agent. As to the particulars of how that happened...during the 2010 season, he had been given an outright assignement to AAA. I'm not sure if that was the first time that had happened, but if it was, he had to accept it(and if it wasn't, he accepted it anyway.) So, that got him off the 40-man roster when the M's needed a spot for...some player I can't recall now. ;) Then, in early October, the M's outrighted Snell again--I'm not sure how it works, since I thought he was not on the 40-man roster at the time(and hadn't been since June), but maybe since Snell had a major league contract, they had to do it again? Anyway, he had the choice to reject this assignment and become a free agent, and he did. So, the options have disappeared, and whoever Snell will still retain him for at least 2 seasons, as he has at least 1 more year of arbitration-eligiblity from what I know. At least he only had 4+ years of service time through 2009, and he didn't accumulate much service time in 2010, but I'm not really certain there either. ;) Hope that helps. :) |
| 32. By: littlelinny6 on 12-09-2010 14:30:41 Via twitter: "@gbakermariners No truth to rumor Zaun didn't want to be on rebuilding team. His agent was pushing M's right to end. Seattle was Zaun's choice" Someone is getting bad info here because I'm curious if this is the case, this signing is really head scratching. |
| 33. By: Edman on 12-09-2010 14:31:22 So let me get this straight, in Jack's vast two years as a GM, we're suppose to assume that because some signings didn't work out, that he's a failure and always will be? I think not. |
| 34. By: Edman on 12-09-2010 14:33:05 Well there ya go, linny, Baker cleared it up. I'm sure that Zaun's agent wasn't gonna try to spin his client into being a "willing" signee. |
| 35. By: jgstecker on 12-09-2010 14:33:24 I didn't say he was a failure. i just said he hasnt pulled off a good signing yet. Which is true. Until he does. |
| 36. By: littlelinny6 on 12-09-2010 14:35:07 I'm not saying who is right or wrong here Edman, but Baker saying "Seattle was Zaun's choice" are pretty strong words. |
| 37. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 14:36:10 RE 35, yet you use the bradley trade as your proof, lol. that was a trade. and ya Edman, most here probably think they could do a better job than the GMs. why? because they take no accountable to what they say at the time things happen yet pass judgement after the fact |
| 38. By: Edman on 12-09-2010 14:40:48 linny, Baker has said lots out of school, as do most reporters. Because an agent, scout, or whoever tells him that, doesn't make it so. He's repeating words, not validating their content. I put little to no weight to words spoken by people who are trying to market a client or an idea. And just where did Baker get this info? A tweet is nothing more than rumor passing, often with hidden modivations. |
| 39. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 14:41:59 That makes a ton of sense JAC. This has to be part of something bigger, and Im willing to bet that it is. I would take that combo at C especially if we can get something of value out of our younger Cs |
| 40. By: Madison Mariner on 12-09-2010 14:45:48 Re: Olivo signing Olivo may be somewhat of a short term answer, and I may not be totally opposed to that, but it shows me a few things: 1. The M's have really gone downhill at developing young catchers. Why even draft them anymore? Sorry, just my frustration coming to the surface here. 2. And Olivo at 2 years? I know he's not still the same, younger catcher we obtained in the Freddy Garcia trade, but why not give Moore a full season at the plate? After all, the meme is that M's won't be competitive in 2011--or at least it has been up to this point, so we were going to see what we had in Moore, Smoak, Saunders, and Ackley. And now, it's like we've crossed over into the "Inverse Bavasi" era, where things we hated about Bavasi are coming back to haunt us. (i.e. Last season's example of Inverse Bavasi GM'ing--trading Brandon Morrow for "pennies on the dollar" after jerking around his development.) I'm steadily like Jack Z. as the M's GM less and less. Sorry guys. |
| 41. By: Rick Randall on 12-09-2010 14:46:19 RE 29... If you think he is going to be a 1.5 WAR guy (averaged 1.6 last 5 years) then he'll still be worth much more than the contract over the next 2 years. Really the only 'yay' or 'nay' on this signing should come from your thoughts on Moore's ability, because in a vacuum by itself, the $ is worth it. |
| 42. By: PositivePaul on 12-09-2010 14:52:58 "Really the only 'yay' or 'nay' on this signing should come from your thoughts on Moore's ability, because in a vacuum by itself, the $ is worth it." But but but the $aber$ites tell me to HATE this deal!!!111! :-) |
| 43. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 14:54:02 RE 40: what do you mean by the Ms have gone downhill at developing young catchers? Jack Z has been here for 2 years and has drafted a C in both his drafts. How is he supposed to develop a C in 2 years? Moore was not his guy and maybe he has no faith that Moore will ever be the guy. Cant really blame this FO for past mistakes |
| 44. By: Bionic_ben23 on 12-09-2010 14:54:05 mariners offered laynce nix a deal |
| 45. By: JonathanAicardi on 12-09-2010 14:59:51 The contract isn't so bad and even if Olivo ends up awful at the plate it won't be a disaster. It's just not the move of a rebuilding team and at the very least sends me a rather mixed message. But I guess if there's any place to lean on veteran ability, it's at catcher. Whether they think they could use more in a trade or if they think he simply isn't good enough, if they're getting rid of him at that point I'd rather have a catcher who at least knows what he's doing, especially at only 3% of the payroll. I'm only expecting about what Randall mentioned for 1-1.5 WAR each year. No patience, low line drive rate and a decidedly average hr/fb history. Left field will be hard to navigate in come September with all those cans of corn just lying around. But if he's up to the task behind the plate he should live up to the contract just fine. |
| 46. By: aerichner on 12-09-2010 15:41:19 I love Jack. Might not love the Olivo deal but it doesnt make us or break us. The only thing it does is block Adam Moore who hasnt hit and isnt THAT young. If both get ABs then Im fine with that. If Moore gets traded then Im fine with that. Its a 2 year deal, not 4-5, and we're not paying him 7 million a year. Short term signing is what was to be expected. Were hoping for 1 year but we got 2. Fine. If he can hit a little then thats an upgrade @ catcher ..finally. -- While Cust wasnt my 1st option, I dont mind him and if Nix get signed, I'd dig that. Interested to see what happens with the 40 man roster. |
| 47. By: PositivePaul on 12-09-2010 15:57:36 Any word on if Grady Sizemore was being shopped at all during the meetings? Just curious -- seems like a potential buy-low candidate that's high risk certainly, but could provide decent reward, even if he's not the pre-injury player he used to be. |
| 48. By: shortstop9 on 12-09-2010 16:21:32 Olivo can at least hit 7th in the lineup.That is not to bad of signing I think Navarro would have been better.Lineup in desperate need of a # 3 hitter.They should try to get a young OF in trade like Rasmus,Snider,Kalish etc.Don' they still have the room to add Ordonez on a 2 year deal? |
| 49. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-09-2010 16:26:03 Paul, Sizemore's value is nil right now due to the injury problems. Two teams I know of think he's a part-time LF, part-time DH like Johnny Damon the past few years. Cleveland's plan, according to MGR Manny Acta, is to get Sizemore healthy and see what happens. IMO, I think he's dealt between March and July 31. |
| 50. By: littlelinny6 on 12-09-2010 16:29:37 With the possible signing of Nix, you have Saunders, Guti, and Ichiro in the OF with Nix as 4th OF, how long until Bradley is traded or released?? |
| 51. By: cusefan15 on 12-09-2010 17:13:25 Actually, Nix makes me think that Saunders future with the team is somewhat precarious. It doesn't make sense to add Nix if he is going to be getting most of his time in lieu of another left handed bat. |
| 52. By: rjfrik on 12-09-2010 18:12:52 If nix is signed that is interesting on the Saunders front. Could Moore and Saunders be included in a deal that's in the works. Maybe with a reliever as well. Hmm. We shall see |
| 53. By: shortstop9 on 12-09-2010 18:13:21 I agree I wouldn't be shocked to see Saunders and Moore moved in a deal. |
| 54. By: rjfrik on 12-09-2010 19:37:23 Pineda, Moore and b level prospect for Grienke? Saunders, Aardsma and prospect for a big bat? Could very well be two deals in the works. One for a starter and one for a hitter. I guess it all depends on who Jack sees at the airport on his way home. ; ) |
| 55. By: Edman on 12-09-2010 19:40:41 And just what's suppose to get Kansas City excited about Moore? Would you be excited? Some of you are reading wayyyyyyyyyyy too much into this. |
| 56. By: slamcactus on 12-09-2010 19:41:13 "Fact is, Olivo will likely get us between 4 and 6 WAR over the next 2 seasons (assuming he stays here) for $7m. He also helps with lineup construction problems which have always dictated that the M's C hit 8th." To believe Olivo's a true-talent 3-win player is to believe he was really a +11 glove last year, that he'll sustain that moving forward, and that he won't regress offensively even though he's moving to a park that absolutely kills guys with his skill-set (making the park adjustment even more extreme than the already-extreme move from Coors to Safeco for the generic hitter), and that he won't suffer age-related decline in his age 31-32 seasons.. More likely, he'll regress both with the bat and the glove, and put up something more along the lines of his career .303 wOBA with average-ish defense, which would make him about a 1.5 WAR guy. And that's only if he regresses/adjusts to the park, that doesn't even consider the high likelihood of decline from a guy who will have more than 1000 big-league games wearing on his knees by the end of the deal. Expecting 4-6 would make this something like the best FA signing of the offseason. Now, I don't absolutely hate the move, especially if the team's soured on Moore, but your projection is bordering on lunacy. |
| 57. By: slamcactus on 12-09-2010 19:59:04 "Pineda, Moore and b level prospect for Grienke?" If Felix were only under contract for two more years, would you trade him to Texas for Derek Holland, Chris Davis, and a B-level prospect? Yeah, didn't think so. That package would be better than what you just suggested the Ms offer for Greinke. |
| 58. By: shortstop9 on 12-09-2010 20:05:03 They won't go after anybody huge.No reason to bring Greinke in while you rebuild.Probably someone like Snyder from Tor. or Crain from Milwaukee.That would work. |
| 59. By: slamcactus on 12-09-2010 20:08:07 For anyone thinking about potential Ms packages for Greinke, ask yourself whether you'd accept the same package from another team in return for Felix. If the answer is "hell no," your idea won't work, because that's the kind of return the Royals will need to move him. |
| 60. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 20:10:32 RE 59: no...Felix>>>>>>Greinke Greinke doesnt equal Felix, and the Royals dont equal the Ms |
| 61. By: nighthawk180 on 12-09-2010 20:26:48 Oh my gosh, People need to get off of Olivo's back. Really what are you guys complaining about? 2yrs 7mil (3.5 mil a year!!!) is not even close to say jack wilson at 5mil for 1 Year. Wilson cant play enough to even get noticed on any trade wire. I mean really what has come of our catchers the last couple of years? He has averaged 16 homers the last 5 years. We had a grand total of 10 last year between 5 catchers. We pay Aardsma and League the same or more for this year. At least Olivo will play over 100 games barring injury. Yes I understand the stance on Moore. I get it that he is yet to have enough time to establish anything. Olivo's on the roster now puts Moore in a questionable position. If Moore does finally figure it out you think its gonna be hard to trade Olivo and his huge salary away? You could also just eat the salary to if you really had to. Dont get me wrong like Moore a lot being a catcher back in the day myself until 8th grade then converting to OF, 1B, P. I still think he could very much be a everyday player but he hasnt proven anything yet. With no other better options out there its not that bad a move. It's not like any big names want to come here anyway right now and what should we spend or limited money on guys. Zaun didnt want to come here and is 40-41 years old. I know he is probably better then Olivo (didnt look up stats) but if anyone is going to regress dont you think that age is on Olivo's side? We spent a whopping 7mil on two players that could possibly provide better production then most of the entire roster last year and still moving in a rebuilding stage with a ton of youth going to come. I dont get what people were expecting the mariners do? Just my $.02 Sorry for the long post and let the bashing away. LOL |
| 62. By: VikingArthur on 12-09-2010 21:24:56 This is a 3.5 million dollar per year signing for a starter. Adam Moore is simply not a starting caliber MLB catcher. Could he be? Maybe, but you really cannot go into a season with Moore and Rob Johnson. When Russel Martin signs this deal will look better. We are going to have a ton of kids playing for us next year and that should be the case but playing kids like Moore who have shown little to make anyone think they are a MLBer doesn't make sense. One scenario is that Moore improves a bit in the next year and then you move Olivo mid way through 2012 (if you are not in contention). But if we are aiming to contend in 2012, you need a catcher who is not a AAA catcher and Olivo is a legit MLB catcher. |
| 63. By: DRWheelock on 12-09-2010 21:55:15 With a Nix signing this would mean Saunders is history. Both are LHBs, and Nix is better than Saunders except in the SB category. I'm sure Saunders will be one of several that would be included in any package in a trade. BoSox have had a BLOWOUT and INCREDIBLE offseason. No BoSox fan here, but a Yankee hater. BoSox might as well dump $25M on Cliff Lee and really steal the show this offseason, and piss the Yanks off. If they did that, they would have a 6-man rotation, and would expect them to move Dice-K's $10M salary to stay within their regulary annual budget. Moving Dice-K would put BoSox 2011 salary around the $160M mark. They also have Cameron as their 4th OFer, and a 5th OFer too, so I can see them moving JD Drew or Cameron. After A-Gonz and Crawford, I wouldn't put it past Theo to go hard after Lee. This would open up a great opportunity for Z to discuss Dice-K BoSox will be GREAT this year. I can't believe their lineup, let alone pitching! |
| 64. By: deep_to_right on 12-09-2010 22:12:35 What was it, 2-3 years ago when we had three up and coming catching prospects and the future looked bright at that position and we could pick the best? Clement, Johnson and Moore...WTF? |
| 65. By: mauricewilliamsiii on 12-09-2010 22:53:13 #64 Unfortunately none of the three turned out to be much as catchers. What happened to the offense of Moore and Clement? Who knows. Olivo is a solid move. |
| 66. By: baseballman on 12-09-2010 23:21:12 So Jay Bruce just got extended...JAC should that mean anything to us?? |
| 67. By: rjfrik on 12-10-2010 02:04:41 Here's a question. Who would you rather have? Pineda, Moore, (B level prospect) Lueke or Phillipe Aumont, Tyson Gilles, Juan Ramirez .......thought so. Now who would you rather have? Grienke or Lee ......thought so. It really isn't that ridiculous of a trade at all. Just look at Z's track record, he wins in trades, he isn't giving up a boat load of prospects for anyone. Royals would be lucky to even get Pineda. Just saying. |
| 68. By: sprtsjnkyyak on 12-10-2010 02:21:09 The m's needed a veteran catcher that has had some success. They could not go into the season with what they had. Martin will get more than m's can afford. Zaun is 39 not much else out there. jack did a good job getting a player in his price range at a position of need. |
| 69. By: DRWheelock on 12-10-2010 09:29:44 Something else about Olivo? When is the last time Seattle had a catcher that produced more than a 1 WAR?! Here is Olivo's WAR since 2006: 2006 = 1.6 2007 = 1.1 2008 = 1.1 2009 = 2.0 2010 = 3.2 FanGraph has his contributing value in 2009 as $9M, and for 2010 as $12.9 compared to all other catchers. Yes there are better Catchers out there on the market (Victor M, and Mauer), but not in our price range. Olivo's value is in his fielding, and he's a decent hitter. Even prior to leaving Seattle his Defense and putouts have been outstanding. This will give Adam Moore some thing that he has to work for, to step up his game at the MLB level. Were not in Kansas anymore Dorothy (for Olivo), but for Adam Moore he's not in MiLB anymore either...he will be pressured to step his game up at the needed level. Not a signing to get majorly excited about, except our D has just improved substantially at Catching position, and it puts pressure on Moore to step up big over the next 2 years if he wants to make it in MLB. |
| 70. By: slamcactus on 12-10-2010 10:05:48 "Pineda, Moore, (B level prospect) Lueke or Phillipe Aumont, Tyson Gilles, Juan Ramirez" First of all, that was for 1 year of Lee, not 2. Second, the trade was panned by absolutely everyone in the scouting community from day 1. Amaro made an awful, awful deal out of some weird idea that he had to jettison Lee to make the Halladay deal possible. Those circumstances don't exist with Greinke, and if there's one thing Dayton Moore is good at it's scouting minor leaguers. Moore is not going to trade Greinke for one solid prospect and a collection of slop. Other teams don't want our trash. If a guy isn't good enough at the age of 27 to win the starting catching job for the worst offensive team in baseball, he's not good enough to be the #2 piece in a trade for Zach Greinke. "RE 59: no...Felix>>>>>>Greinke Greinke doesnt equal Felix, and the Royals dont equal the Ms" That's ridiculous homerism. Greinke had a bit of a down year and had "just" a 5-WAR season this past year, but his 2009 was a performance that Felix has never come close to equaling. They're both front-line starters, and both of them have frontline starter value on the trade market. |
| 71. By: baseballman on 12-10-2010 17:28:20 youre clueless if you think greinke is better than felix or that he is more valuable in a trade |
| 72. By: Timberwolf on 12-11-2010 19:59:50 Greinke may not be as good as Felix, but he is reasonably close and worth more than what the Mariners can afford to trade unless the Royals are really stupid. The Phillies were really stupid last year and Jack made a great deal. A team that thinks that 5 more wins puts them in the playoffs mortgages the farm to get Greinke, not a team that lost 100 games. I believe that the team moved backwards in the long run last year because the front office clowns (Howie and Chuck) ordered Jack Z. to act like a contender to sell tickets to morons. |
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